User talk:Ezhiki

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Ëzhiki is currently out of town in Nebraska and will be back on Wikipedia November 20, 2006

Volume 2, Issue 46 — 13 November 2006

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Archived talk: 2004 2005 2006

[edit] Maps

Test map of Adygea

I can help you with the map(s) you requested. Only thing is the timeframe - what are you expecting (or when)? I am in class for the weekend, so I can probably get to this next week sometime. Rarelibra 22:50, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh, no rush. Whenever it's convenient to you. Beside the map, I still need to write a bunch of stubs to paint the red links blue. Thanks for agreeing to help; I much appreciate it!—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 23:29, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Hey Ezhiki - how does this map look?

I threw this together quickly tonight. Let me know if you have any changes/updates/etc. Rarelibra 04:15, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Hey, thanks! It looks a little rough, but should work as a temporary solution. I am just wondering if you could fix a couple minor things:

Could Black Sea be painted light blue or something, so it would be immediately apparent that it's a body of water?
Could the borders between Gagra/Gudauta/Sokhumi be erased, and could the whole thing be labeled "Georgia" instead? Maybe it would be better to make it light grey or something to show this is another country.
Could you change "Krasnodar" to "Krasnodar Krai"? The former is the name of the city, the latter—of the federal subject.
Changing colors of territories of Krasnodar Krai and Karachay-Cherkessia might be helpful, although the map works fine as is.
Any way administrative centers of the districts could be shown on the map?

If any of these requires too much work to be put in, then it's no big deal if you don't do it. Like I said, I just need a temp solution, not an elaborate map, although, of course, the more information you could fit into it, the better. Thanks again for your willingness to help!—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 13:27, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Ezhiki - it was supposed to be a 'rough draft' to get your final comments (as above) :) I will go ahead and make the changes and hopefully it won't be a 'temporary' solution - I'd like to think most of my maps will be quite useful. Rarelibra 13:50, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I did not at all mean to demean your work; it's just that since I asked for a "temporary solution" and you provided a "rough draft", I naturally assumed them equivalents. If you could make a permanent high-quality map, it'll be great! Thanks so much again.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 13:56, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Muchas gracias

Hey Ëzhiki, thanks a lot for supporting me in my recent RfA. It succeeded, and I am very grateful to all of you. If you ever need help with anything, please don't hesitate to ask. Also, feel free point out any mistakes I make! Thanks again, —Khoi khoi 04:42, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Administrative divisions of Krasnoyarsk Krai

I'n very sorry that I expressed my problems in a bad way. I was trying to read articles on Siberia in general and came across that page and could not understand it. Sorry that I know so little about Siberia to express my confusion correctly. Mattisse (talk) 12:27, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

P.S. I would fix it myself if I had any idea how to do so. I would love to, but I would do more harm than good if I tried. Mattisse (talk) 12:27, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your clarification, Mattisse. Although it hurts a bit, I now know that those lists need a lot more improvement than I previously thought. Could you do me a favor, though, and take a look at administrative divisions of Adygea? That one, while still not complete, is the closest one to becoming a poster child for the rest of the articles in the series. Is it just as confusing to you as the one about Krasnoyarsk Krai? What are the things that definitely need improvement/detailed explanation from the point of view of the person who never dealt with the subject before? I realize that my being deeply involved with the subject may lead to missing some points that seem obvious to me but not so much to a reader who just wants to understand what the list is about. Any pointers you can supply will be of invaluable help. Thanks!—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 17:09, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

I certainly would be willing to help you out in any way I can, since the best way to learn about a country is to start working on articles about it. But I looked at the second link, administrative divisions of Adygea, and is way over my head. My level is more Ket people which I enjoyed working on. -- but of which you might not approve. For years people where I live have had available no real information about Russia. It is only on Wikipedia that I have learned that there are individual identities to places and peoples in Russia. Just now I looked at Federal subjects of Russia (a really helpful article) and was amazed to learn there are 88 subjects in the Russian federation. But then Adygea isn't on there. So I looked at Adygea and find it is "enclaved within Krasnodar Krai", but the Adyghe people are of the northwest Caucasus region. (I worked on some independent republic articles in the Caucasus so I have a little bit more of a feel for what is going on there - but not at all for what is happening in the Russian federation there.) Bottomline -- I will help in anyway I can. I think my level of contribution might not be very helpful though but I can try. (I did finally figure out India's many transitions and name changes, etc., so maybe there is hope for me and Russia. You probably would have to give me some direction though - like a reading list or something so I could get the overall picture. Mattisse (talk) 19:11, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

As for me Administrative divisions of Adygea is a very high quality example and may be used as a good pattern for similar articles even in Russian part of Wikipedia. Good job, endeed! Offtopic for Ezhiki: Мне правда очень интересен ответ на вопрос в секции #Ushayka River - ответь, пожалуйста, если не секрет :) MaxiMaxiMax 13:32, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Mattisse, Max, thank you both for your comments. Max, thank you also for your praise; however, you, being Russian and working on Russian geo-topics yourself would be a lot more familiar with what the list is about. I am seeking Mattisse's comments as his level is a lot closer to that of an average reader. If the list in its current form is completely incomprehensible to him, improvements are in order. Mind you, I don't want to dumb it down to the least common denominator, but an intelligent person interested in the topic, such as Mattisse, should not be put off because the list is too technical.

With that in mind, I would like to answer Mattisse's comments. First of all, let me clarify that Adygea is in fact present in the list of Russian federal subjects—it's the very first in the list and spelled a little differently (Adygeya). Second, I don't really expect Mattisse to make improvements to either this list or to any other articles in the series. I would, however, appreciate general comments. Mattisse, you said that the list is "way over your head". Would you have any suggestions regarding how to improve that situation? Are there too many terms introduced in the early sections of the list, which may not be comprehensible to a reader who just wants to understand what the list is about? Are there some points that need to be clarified before deeper technicalities are addressed? Can you pinpoint any particular sentences that don't make sense or are too difficult to understand? I realize that much of the information you lack is most likely available via other articles, but I would appreciate your help in identifying which concepts are in most need of in-text definitions. Whatever comments you might have will be most helpful.

As for a reading list that would help you understand the subject in more detail, let me refer you to one of the similar discussions I had in the past. It's available at User talk:Ezhiki/2006#"Subdivisions of...", and although it's a bit on a longer side, it should answer most of the questions you might have. There is also plenty of links provided there.

I am looking forward to hearing your comments. Thanks again for your interest!—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 13:57, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry I didn't get to it today (extremely busy day) but I will. I am very interested in the subject of Russia. I did notice that there seem to be so many categories: inhabited localities, urban settlements, urban-type settlements etc. I'm not sure how the word "urban" is being used here. Then there are federal subjects and federal districts etc. And I'm not sure where Adygea is on the map in relationship to the rest of the world and the Black Sea. It must be near all those independent republics. But Adygea is a republic but a federal subject. I'm looking forward to understanding it all. Mattisse (talk) 00:52, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Found this quote which helps me (I think). Is it generally correct?

With a few changes of status, most of the Soviet-era administrative and territorial divisions of the Russian Republic were retained in constituting the Russian Federation. In 1996 there were eighty-nine administrative territorial divisions: twenty-one republics, six territories (kraya ; sing., kray ), forty-nine oblasts (provinces), one autonomous oblast, and ten autonomous regions (okruga ; sing., okrug ). The cities of Moscow and St. Petersburg have separate status at the oblast level. Population size and location have been the determinants for a region's designation among those categories. The smallest political division is the rayon (pl., rayony ), a unit roughly equivalent to the county in the United States. Source: U.S. Library of Congress

Mattisse (talk) 14:18, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

It's a tad outdated, but generally correct. Perm Oblast and Permyakia merged in 2005, so there are 88 subjects now, not 89, and more mergers will happen in 2007. Also, some of the terminology used in this text is different from what is used in Wikipedia (it's not uncommen when the same concept of Russian administrative division has several different names in English).

I'd also recommend that you read subdivisions of Russia and articles link from it. That way you won't have to figure out inconsistencies in terminology on top of an already sufficiently convoluted system of Russian administrative structure.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 14:27, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Administrative divisions of Nizhny Novgorod Oblast

Uvazhaemye ezhiki,

No objections on your reverts. I agree that it is more consistent for us to stick with OKATO. As the Wiki article on OKATO says, OKATO indeed is not set up for expressing the 4-level subordination (Oblast | City | City district | posyolok or selsovet): "Для незначительного количества объектов (объекты, подчиненные администрациям районов городов республиканского, краевого, областного подчинения) их кодирование осуществляется на 6, 7, 8 разрядах, однако исключается одна ступень подчиненности, а именно подчиненность администрации района, и указывается их подчиненность администрации города."

As to the terminology: the Nizhny Novgorod City Charter [1] indeed says:

"Статья 7. Административно-территориальное устройство города

1. ... Город состоит из

* Автозаводского, Канавинского, Ленинского, Московского, Нижегородского, Приокского, Советского, Сормовского районов;   
* Березовопойменского сельсовета, входящего в Московский район; 
* деревень Новая, Подновье, курортного поселка "Зеленый город", входящих в Нижегородский район; 
* деревень Бешенцево, Ближнеконстантиново, Луч, Ляхово, Мордвинцево, Ольгино, входящих в Приокский район; 
* деревни Кузнечиха, входящей в Советский район.

(formatting mine, words theirs). So if one just reads this, one has reasons to interpret this "входящего" not as being "under jurisdiction" but being "located within [the] territory" of Nizhegorodsky city district. However, OKATO obviously talks about the same concepts in terms of "подчиненные администрациям", i.e. settlements "under jurisdiction" of the district governments.

And finally, as to the facts on the ground (and thanks to Wikimapia I could check the borders of Zelyony Gorod, as given in the same charter), this "resort settlement" sits a long way off Nizhegorodsky District, smack dab in the middle of Kstovo District. Vmenkov 06:17, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually checking the map of the oblast was something I neglected to do. Didn't get away with it, did I? :) Other than that, is there is anything else left unresolved?—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 16:52, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wiki-friends

I have added you to my list of Wiki-friends. --Ineffable3000 19:34, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Hey, thanks, but what did I do to deserve it?—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 19:48, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

You copyedit a lot of Russia articles and you are a good reference. --Ineffable3000 21:37, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Actuate

I speedied Actuate, though upon further research it probably doesn't qualify for speedy deletion, so I've restored it. —tregoweth (talk) 21:20, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, although as someone who's using it I can tell that advertisement is pretty much the only type of documentation available out there.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 22:04, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Would you mind?

If I tried to fix your "bunched up edits" on History of the administrative division of Russia? I could always revert it back if it didn't work. Mattisse (talk) 18:28, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi, Mattisse! I am not quite sure what you mean by my "bunched up edits", but of course you are welcome to edit the article! This is wiki, after all—I neither own any articles here nor can (or want to) prevent constructive edits by others. Let me know if I can be of assistance, though. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 18:42, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re Autonomous area

Hi Ëzhiki!

...and, of course, took a look at Russia. All in all, the information there is correct. One thing I would recommend, however, is to get rid of the "autonomous areas of Russia" main article link at the top of the Russia section. Traditionally, "autonomous areas" was one of the variants of rendering "autonomous oblasts" in English, and since the usage is still fairly common, it can create confusion...

I'm sure now that if I ever have the misfortune to be conscripted, I will try to join the air force, as I don't think I'll survive any minefields I meet! Thanks for confirming that everything else seems okay; I'm nearly ready to start believing in miracles...

As you may've guessed, I'd hoped "autonomous area" would be a globally-neutral term, but, of course, that's asking too much (!) so I'm now thinking of:

Moving the current Autonomous area (back) to Autonomous region, then converting the remaining Autonomous area into a disambiguation page pointing to Autonomous region and Autonomous oblast;
Moving Autonomous regions of China to Autonomous region (country subdivision);
Moving Autonomous areas of China to Autonomous regions of China;
Creating Autonomous region (disambiguation) with links to Autonomous region and Autonomous region (country subdivision);
Moving the other Autonomous areas of X articles to Autonomous regions of X.

Dare I ask what you reckon...?...!

...a more neutral title, such as "Autonomies of Russia"...

...and, more generally, Autonomies of X. I like the compact nature of "autonomies", but I wonder whether most folk reading it would know to what it referred...?

I am also not completely sure what you meant by "country-sized"...

This is a lazy description I forgot to remove/improve before submission; I'll amend now. I've also just seen another...

Thanks for the alert, David (talk) 19:21, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
PS tasc seems to've gone quiet; I hope it's nothing more than a wikibreak.

Hi, David! I hope all is not as grave as you are painting it, although, lest you got that impression, I cannot confirm[] that everything else seems okay, because I did not look at everything else, just at Russia! Sorry if that's a disappointment.

To further ~~clarify~~ mud the Russian issues, "autonomous areas" isn't really all that established as a formal term. If you look at Russian autonomies, the terms "autonomous okrug/oblast/district/area/territory/region (yes, that too)" are used interchangeably to refer to either AOkrugs or AOblasts. Moving autonomous area to autonomous region isn't really going to fix anything, if that's what you were hoping to achieve. The best we can do is to accept a set of terms that are to be consistently used all across Wikipedia, and only mention all other variants as valid alternatives.

I am sorry I am not of much help here. I have no idea what other pitfalls exist for other countries, but I trust you'll be able to coordinate it all in the end.

As for the term "autonomy", it was just a suggestion. Having consulted with the dictionary, I see that the term may indeed be potentially confusing, because it refers primarily to the quality (of being self-governed), not to the entity. Merriam-Webster, however, defines "autonomy" as a "self-governing state", although it's only the third given meaning of the word. Anyway, that's something to consider. I see the term as not ideal but acceptable, but then again, I am not a native speaker and some very fine nuances may escape me.

In any case, let me know if something in my ranting above is unclear or if there is anything I can help with. Best,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 13:43, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your follow-up, Ëzhiki:

...Moving autonomous area to autonomous region isn't really going to fix anything, if that's what you were hoping to achieve. The best we can do is to accept a set of terms that are to be consistently used all across Wikipedia...

Well, if there isn't a neutral, generic and recogniz/sable term that isn't already used by a country somewhere, I guess "autonomous region" plus PRC disambiguation is preferable to "autonomous area" plus Russian disambiguation as the former seems to be used more regularly. Tobias, I think, would agree...

As for the term "autonomy", it was just a suggestion. Having consulted with the dictionary, I see that the term may indeed be potentially confusing...

Whither progress without suggestions... The idea of using "autonomy" itself as the term hadn't occurred to me, so I'm glad you thought of it; it's just I feel that using it (as in "Autonomies of Country") would not create sufficiently informative article names. Yours, David (talk) 20:04, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

My idea was that the term "autonomies of Russia" would cover all "autonomous whatevers of Russia" (including historic entities!) very nicely. I did not imply this solution would work for other countries, however. Sorry if my comments were misleading. Let me know if this changes anything. We do need to come up with a name if we are to keep the "main article" link at the top of the Russia section. Best,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 17:40, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Settlements in India

As someone editing Geography articles, you may like Talk:Hyderabad,_India#Requested_move Tobias Conradi (Talk) 15:48, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Interesting. I cast my vote. How are other Indian cities currently disambiguated?—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 17:43, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Would you mind if?

On Federal subjects of Russia there is a problem with the image Image:Federal subjects of Russia (by number).png overlapping the info box. I would like to try and fix it, and I could always revert it back to the way you have it now if things don't work out. Thanks! Mattisse (talk) 00:45, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

On looking at the problem more closely, I think [[Image:Federal subjects of Russia (by number).png|center|400px|frame|]] could be remove as you have a smaller version below it. That wout take care of the problem, I believe. Mattisse (talk) 00:58, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I got the images mixed up. Maybe just cutting down the size of the image would do it. I'd have to experiment. With thd tables and all, there is not much flexibility there. But I see why you want Federal Subjects of Bussia (by number).png to be nice and big -- it's so interesting. Could the info box be smaller? Mattisse (talk) 01:13, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi, Matisse! Theoretically, the infobox can be made smaller, but since it's present in many other articles besides this one, you would have to make sure it does not cause problems elsewhere. Other than that I can't tell you if there is a better way to fix things than moving the infobox all the way down; I'd have to try it out myself. If I find a better solution, you'll see it. Thanks!—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 14:50, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cities and towns

Not really; btw, are the any cities in Russia besides Moscow and Saint Petersburg (and possibly Kronstadt) with established English names different from transliteration? And one more question: what's the mysterious Russian Classification of Objects of Administrative Division as amended by #102-2006, Code 53? It could be used to make the list of cities and towns really exhaustive. Conscious 15:11, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Is it this thing? Conscious 15:19, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

<edit conflict>This one is an outdated copy (see below for current link).—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 15:30, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Peterhof is another one, Tolyatti is sometimes rendered as "Togliatti" (I'd rather not), and there are probably a few others which I don't remember off the top of my head. The "mysterious" classification is in fact OKATO, and I should probably spell it out in Russian as well, because it is not available in English anyway. I used it extensively to compile the "administrative divisions of..." series, so, as far as cities/towns go, you won't find anything new there that's not already in the series. It is indeed extremely useful to locate urban-type and rural settlements, although the list only lists rural settlements which are administrative centers of selsoviets (effectively omitting ~75% of all rural settlements). The document is available online, but if you want, I can email you the Word document which, in addition to what's available online, highlights all the errors and inconsistencies I've been able to find while working with it, and actually spells out what changes were done in its 102 revisions (it's missing the break-down of revisions 43 through 69, which I am still working on, but otherwise it's complete). The layout is far from ideal and is a pain in the ass to work with, but it's the most comprehensive publically accessible document there is. The next best thing would be to collect regional registries, but none of them is available online, let alone with updates.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 15:30, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

What I would like to have is a source to find changes made since the census, of just a complete list of cities. If you can send me something that can ease that task, I would be thankful. Actually, I think I can just page through your "administrative divisions" articles to make it. Conscious 21:12, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

The "administrative divisions" series is current as of the most recent OKATO update, so it includes all changes made since the Census. The lists of cities/towns in the series are also as complete as they can get. I think the series is a lot easier to work with than the original document, because whatever markup I added to OKATO to ease my work would unlikely be useful for what you are trying to do. If you still want that document, just shoot me an email (I'll need to know your email in order to be able to send the attachment; wikimail does not provide the attachments feature). Also, check out this.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 21:31, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I was unable to find any confirmation that Progress (see Administrative divisions of Amur Oblast) is a town. Other than that, the list of cities and towns seems to be up-to-date and correct. Conscious 23:04, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Progress is a fairly recent promotion. See here (12/22/5).—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 14:26, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I'am afraid it's again misunderstanding. Progress is not a town, it's посёлок городского типа. The fact that it is городской округ has nothing with it's town status, so it's still townlet. Please let me know if I'm wrong. MaxiMaxiMax 03:22, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

No, you are not wrong; we eventually figured it out. There was an error in OKATO (still is), and I didn't read the document I cited too carefully myself. I know, I know, shame on me... Thanks anyway!—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 04:33, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Novels WikiProject Newsletter: Issue VI - November 2006

The November 2006 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

This is an automated delivery by grafikbot 21:16, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hoax or not?

Hello. My friend just sent me a short Russia-related PowerPoint presentation. I want to know if it is some kind of russophobic joke or a reality. Can I send you an e-mail? - Darwinek 18:04, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Please check your email.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 19:25, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I have sent it to you. - Darwinek 19:54, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I sent you a reply. Feel free to comment here if you wish.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 20:28, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Well. Life must be very difficult in that part of the world, I suppose many citizens migrate to the European part of Russia and to other countries. In which city have you lived in Siberia? I suppose you now live in Chicago. Btw, saw your name in the e-mail, are you Jewish? (Hope you don't mind my questions.) I live in the beautiful city of [2] on the CZ-PL border. Answer by e-mail, if you want. - Darwinek 23:35, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

No, I am not Jewish. Sorry about that, I should have clarified that weird N.B. nick I use is not my real name :) I'll shoot you an email regarding the rest of your questions tomorrow.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 23:40, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] CfD proposal

Hi Ëzhiki,

Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 October 28#Category:Military districts of Russia and the Soviet Union

What do you make of this proposal (and my request there)...? Thanks, David Kernow (talk) 21:47, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi, David! I am not sure about casing myself, but my concern over this is of different nature. I left my comment there to that effect.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 15:47, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks; I've now responded in turn (in short: seems as if a split required). Yours, David (talk) 19:43, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Price is Right pricing games

As you're the king of all Year in Television pages, I thought I'd ask your opinion on this - someone's going round adding pricing games on the US version of The Price is Right to the year in television pages ([3], [4], [5]).

Surely this isn't notable? I was going to remove them all, but thought I'd ask you first so I know I'm not wasting my time doing so. Billy H 22:31, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Aahh, flattery :)) I have long abandoned the throne, though, and I am afraid I never had much interest in game shows. To further complicate the matters, there were no notability criteria for TV shows in place when I used to work on years in television, so I have no idea whether the additions above were helpful or not. Sorry!—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 00:18, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moscow history during the times of the Kiev Rus'

Hello, Ezhiki, I have a question to you regarding a reversion you made at 17:51 on 31 Oct in "Moscow".

  1. 23:38, 1 November 2006 Alex Bakharev (Talk | contribs) m (Reverted edits by 166.113.0.122 (talk) to last version by SDC)
  2. (cur) (last) 19:55, 1 November 2006 166.113.0.122 (Talk) (→Demographics)
  3. (cur) (last) 19:55, 1 November 2006 166.113.0.122 (Talk) (→Demographics)
  4. (cur) (last) 21:18, 31 October 2006 SDC (Talk | contribs) (clean up, Replaced: privately-owned → privately owned using AWB)
  5. (cur) (last) 17:51, 31 October 2006 Ezhiki (Talk | contribs) m (rv to Anthony5429)
  6. (cur) (last) 17:24, 31 October 2006 83.237.13.237 (Talk) (→General)
  7. (cur) (last) 17:18, 31 October 2006 83.237.13.237 (Talk) (→General)
  8. (cur) (last) 06:02, 31 October 2006 68.166.31.155 (Talk)

The question concerns edits that I made on 31 October 2006 68.166.31.155 and not those made afterwards by others.

The edits were motivated by offering respect to nations who were part of the early Rus state and who do not enjoy being generalized as Russians. I am sure we would agree that the idea of a single Russian people consisting of three brotherly nations of Belorussians, Russians and Ukrainians is undeniably controversial. I am sure that this debate can continue and that cutting and reverting can see its end in eternity, but I hope we can find a better solution.

The edition I tried to make substituting Russian for Rus' does not infringe on the rights of any people that were part of the *early* Rus period of our lands. You may notice that my substitutions of Russia for Rus' were only made to the early period section. That way, we leave room for people to decide for themselves if Rus and Russia are one and the same. In that sense, to stay true to the spirit of the Internet and the *public* encyclopeadia, is this not what our role is about?

I do not want to make the debate political; I hope you would support the idea of staying as objective as possible to all peoples involved in the history of the early Rus state in the context of Wiki, for the benefit of those who lived through the history and those who are reading about it now.

Respectfully, Andriy

p.s.: one typo in the syntax used for references is a very fair edit.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Geolog7 (talk • contribs) .

Hi, Andriy! Thank you for your comment.

The reason for my edit was because the article on Moscow is really not a standalone phenomenon—it is interrelated with many other articles. The issue of Rus'/Russia was discussed many times in many different places, and the overall painfully achieved consensus was to limit the usage of the term "Rus'" to roughly the period of the ninth-tenth centuries. The following period refers to the state as Muscovy. With my revert, I was merely enforcing the consistency of already-used terminology.

You should also know that while I very well understand the importance of this subject, I do not really have much interest in it. If you want to re-open the naming issue, you are very welcome to do so on talk pages of any related articles, or, better yet, at Portal:Russia/Russia-related Wikipedia notice board, and Portal:Ukraine/Ukraine-related Wikipedia notice board (I don't recall if Belarus portal has a similar page). Until then, I would recommend to avoid making radical changes such as you did to Moscow. From what I understand, you are new here, so you might not be aware of the outcomes of previous discussions, and the topic is quite sensitive. Just a friendly piece of advice :)

That said, if you need help figuring your ways around or have any questions, feel free to drop me a line—I am always glad to help newcomers integrate into the great community of Wikipedia editors. See you around!—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 17:33, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Battle of Krasnoi: changing the name to "Krasny"

Ezhiki:

Why did you change the name of Krasnoi to "Krasny" in the battle article? I'm not sure that is the best thing to do, because throughout the west, this encounter is known as "Krasnoi".

For the perspective of writing style, using "Krasny" in the article when the title reads "Krasnoi" may be problematic.

Are you a Russian native?

Thanks.

Kenmore 21:38, 7 November 2006 (UTC)kenmore

Hi, Kenmore! Yes, I am a Russian native. My edit was prompted by this announcement at Portal:Russia/New article announcements. The bottom line of that announcement was that while the battle is undoubtedly known as "the battle of Krasnoi" (so renaming the article is absolutely out of the question), the place itself is not known under that name outside the scope of the battle. Hence my changes. "Krasnoi" is a variation of "Krasny", most likely a distorted genitive. If we consider a (fictious) analogy—the battle of New York—then referring to "Krasny" as "Krasnoi" is kind of like referring to "New York" as "of New York"→the troops occupied of New York. The fact that this distortion made it into the historical name of the battle is unfortunate, but there really isn't anything that can be done about it. What can be done, however, is to refer to the actual place by its proper name.

Perhaps a short paragraph can be added to that effect to the article. I'll gladly hear out your counter-arguments, however. I admit I know very little about the terminology and the names used to describe this battle in the English-language works—if you have sources that consistently call the place (not the battle!) "Krasnoi", then I am most likely wrong and will gladly revert my changes dealing with the name. All in all, this issue seems to lie in the deepest trenches of the gray area of Wikipedia naming conventions :)

Please also see Talk:Battle of Krasnoi for further discussions. Best,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 22:10, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Okay...I understand what you mean now. I am wondering if perhaps it would be more professional to keep the name "Krasnoi" throughout the article, but to add a footnote to the title, and for you to explain in the footnote what you know about bastardization of Russian language names in English?

Also, the subheading titled "The Forces converage on Krasnoi" was very deliberately worded by me to use the word "on", instead of "at". Using the word "on" more accurately conveys to the reader that the two armies were moving toward the town as the action unfolded, and were not actually there when as it progressed. I changed the heading back to its original, using "on" instead of "at".—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kenmore (talk • contribs) .

Ironically, I am usually the one suggesting the use of footnotes in cases such as this one. This time the thought somehow escaped me, plus I wasn't exactly sure how the place is called in the sources you provided (I now see from your comments at Talk:Battle of Krasnoi that it's called "Krasnoi" as well). All in all, it's a fair proposal. Unless you don't mind implementing it yourself right now, count on me fixing it first thing tomorrow morning, if nobody beats me to it (I really have to leave now!). I wouldn't call this phenomenon "bastardization", but I'd mention the fact that the name is distorted, and, of course, leave the link in the infobox pointing to Krasny, Smolensk Oblast, not to non-existent Krasnoi. I'll also see if I can scrap enough information to put together a short stub about the place tomorrow.

Regarding "the forces converage on Krasnoi"—my apologies. Having been in process of copyediting, I did not quite grasp the meaning. Thanks for catching and fixing it back.

And finally, did I mention that overall you did a great job with this article? :) I hope there is more where it came from!

Anyhoo, if there is anything else I can do for you in general or for this article in particular, you are very welcome on my talk page. Best,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 23:15, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Copied to Talk:Battle of Krasnoi.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 15:20, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Capitalization in section titles

Also, titles of subheadings of articles, in English at least, are written with the first letter of each word capitalized. Is there a reason why you reversed this? I'm not sure it is a good thing to do.

Kenmore 22:01, 7 November 2006 (UTC)kenmore

That change was per Wikipedia policy on capitalization of section titles, which prescribes to never capitalize words in section titles except when grammatical conventions otherwise require it.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 23:15, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Award

		The Barnstar of Diligence
		I, Darwinek, hereby award you this beautiful barnstar for your tireless work on the Russian administrative divisions and towns. Your hard work in this area helps keep it clear and consistent. Darwinek 14:34, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Btw. hope you've got my last e-mail. :) - Darwinek 14:34, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Hey, thanks a bunch! I much appreciate your recognition!

I've just sent you a reply to your email, by the way. Sorry I didn't get around to it yesterday.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 15:04, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Persistent and unending dispute with Mr Conradi

I am, apparently, a newbie at this kind of dispute resolution. I have no idea what to do, but ask you, since you have dealt with Mr Conradi before, to please see [6] and advise me what the correct procedure is. I have endeavoured to correct material errors in his edits, as well as to remove inappropriate references to myself, and he simply reverts every time. He is well over the three-reverts rule. I am probably also over the rule, but my reverts have in every case attempted to correct and improve the article, while his have simply been gainsaying. Please help. Thank you. -- Evertype·✆ 13:35, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Hello, Michael! First of all, I apologize for the delay with the response—I've been away for the past few days. Do you still wish my help with Tobias or is the situation under control now? I can certainly at least talk to him to see what his take is/was on all this. Please let me know.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 17:48, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi... The situation is being handled by several other admins (see his talk page). He's been blocked for a while. ISO 15924-related things are quiet; N'Ko needs fixing and I'll see about doing that. -- Evertype·✆ 10:35, 14 November 2006 (UTC)