Talk:Hallmark Cards

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[edit] Merge

This article should be merged into Hallmark Cards because American Greetings appears to be a Public Subsidiary of Hallmark Cards. Let's talk about it. Miracleimpulse 05:26, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Could you provide a source for that? Unfounded, unsourced conjecture does not belong in the article. --Transfinite 18:07, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

• At this point, the entire article is unsourced. Miracleimpulse 14:30, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough. However, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and your theory about a massive conspiracy between Hallmark Cards and American Greetings is a rather extraordinary claim. --Transfinite 18:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

• The proof is in the cards: millions upon millions of Sweetest Day cards with nearly identical highly deceptive statements printed right on the back of every card. American Greetings was founded in 1906, Hallmark in 1910. Both were there for the first Sweetest Days which started in 1921. What's going on is obviously co-ordinated intentional deception in order to sell products. Miracleimpulse 22:34, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Also, I believe you have the wrong article. You are probably looking for Hallmark Cards. --Transfinite 18:18, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

A clarification: The merge discussion above was originally posted on Talk:Hallmark. Miracleimpulse moved it over here. --Transfinite 22:33, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Hallmark and American Greetings have already used Wikipedia for purposes of mass deception on the Sweetest Day page, is it such a stretch that they might be deceiving everyone further by posing as two companies? Miracleimpulse 04:10, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm still waiting for any proof, whatsoever, of this conspiracy theory of yours. --Transfinite 05:13, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

• Let's start with: Over the past several years, Hallmark and American Greetings have issued hundreds of millions of Sweetest Day cards with nearly identical Sweetest Day verisimilitudes printed right on the reverse side of each card. Their websites also sock puppet the same verisimilitudes about Sweetest Day. Miracleimpulse 12:00, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

• That's not proof of anything. Find a WP:RS that shows they have the same owner. Then we'd have something to talk about.--Isotope23 12:59, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

• Not proof of anything. Only that they are working in a co-operative manner to fashion the holidays America celebrates, and making big money in the process. Did you know that the former president of Hallmark Brands USA is now president of American Greetings' Carlton Cards? Miracleimpulse 13:21, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

• ...so the guy took another job. Again, for these to be merged there would need to be demonstrable proof that the two companies had effectively the same company due to a corporate merger, etc. Unless you have some reliable source evidence of that there is nothing more to discuss and this tag is an exercise in WP:POINT.--Isotope23 14:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

• The point being that Wikipedia is being used by industry for purposes of mass deception. It has already happened on the Sweetest day page, and it is happening here too. Did you know that the founding president of The Hallmark Channel is now director of The Hatchery, American Greetings' version of The Hallmark Channel? I guess she got a new job too. Or did she? Miracleimpulse 14:57, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

• ...and this supports your merge reasoning "This article should be merged into Hallmark Cards because American Greetings appears to be a Public Subsidiary of Hallmark Cards..." how? You have yet to produce any evidence at all.--Isotope23 15:00, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

• The evidence is everywhere Isotope. Co-creation of fake holidays. Interchangeable presidents. Is your paycheck blocking your ability to see these things? Miracleimpulse 15:12, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

• And you top it all off with yet another assumption of bad faith bordering on a personal attack...with no evidence. If you can't differentiate between reliably sourced evidence and conspiracycruft, we have nothing more to discuss.--Isotope23 15:23, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
• Why don't we put this matter up for arbitration and let others figure out the motivations for your edits both here and on the Sweetest Day page. After all, it is in the best interests of Wikipedia to determine whether or not industry is using Wikipedia for profit. Miracleimpulse 15:34, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

• If you want to log an arbcom case against me, by all means do so.--Isotope23 15:52, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

As per discussion on Talk:American Greetings, this suggestion and so-called issue are nonsense. See there for further information. Newyorkbrad 18:47, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Question: Why doesn't this Hallmark article mention that Hallmark makes all Disney greeting cards?

Answer: Because Gibson Greetings used to make all Disney cards, and Gibson was bought by American Greetings.

• Every day in every way, Hallmark and American Greetings are a Monopoly. And Wikipedia is being used by industry for purposes of mass deception on this page, the American Greetings page and the Sweetest Day page. It is that simple. Miracleimpulse 03:10, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

• The article doesn't mention any of Hallmark Card's licensing agreements. When you are making such a brash claim, you need to have evidence. All I've seen so far is speculation. Unless you find a source that directly claims that Hallmark and American Greetings are involved in some sort of grand conspiracy, then there is nothing to talk about. I'm tired of this "Don't you see! Make the connection!" stuff. Wikipedia is not the place to "Make the connection." I find two companies engaged in fierce competition a much more likely theory than a large conspiracy. I think Occam's razor applies. --Transfinite 04:47, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

• That the former president of Hallmark Brands USA is the current president of Carlton Cards is not speculation.

• That the founding president of The Hallmark Channel is the current director of The Hatchery is not speculation.

• That Hallmark now makes all Disney greeting cards is not speculation (Gibson has been sliced up like a piece of meat between American Greetings and Hallmark).

• That the flagship American Greetings Carlton Store at Chicago's Merchandise Mart recently closed without notification and was replaced by a Hallmark Gold Crown Store is not speculation.

• That American Greetings and Hallmark promote Sweetest Day using nearly identical verisimilitudes is not speculation.

• That American Greetings and Hallmark are blocking nearly every patented new greeting card concept from the market is not speculation.

"All things being equal, American Greetings and Hallmark Cards are a Monopoly." Miracleimpulse 07:44, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

• What are your sources on this information? I'd like to look into this myself. --Transfinite 22:59, 13 November 2006 (UTC)