Talk:Kazakhs

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Kazakh should be spelled with no extra h (Kazak) (unless your Russian)! What do you think about changing that?

Dawit

I don't mean it badly but if you are Russian you are not using this alphabet anyway. I like the H it is a good reminder that the last K is just a K by default, it could nearly be a R. Carole a 19:28, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 Photo 2 Quarashi 3 Requested move (moving discussion from Wikipedia:Requested moves) 3.1 Discussion 4 Early twentieth-century photo 5 Borat, Sacha Baron Cohen, and the Khazar-Jew Theory

[edit] Photo

I added the photo, and soon after I started to worry that it would look like I was trying to "pigeon hole" the look of the Kazakh people. I don't want it to come across as a racial over simplification. This is not meant to be the case. When I took this picture this man showed great pride in being a Kazakh shepard in the steppe. His self pride was beautiful, and to me illustrate nicely the Kazakh spirit. I wanted this picture to show the Kazakh spirit not their look. Is it coming across alright, or should I delete the picture? Carole a 16:50, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Added another picture, does this help? Carole a 19:05, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Nice pics! When i opened up the article I was pleasently surprised, I think there often aren't enough pics on the wikipedia :) -- Are there any other pics you know of, particularly historical? Would it be worthwhile of having a variety of pics versus time? FrancisTyers 03:17, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Very interesting picture, so i added a link to it in the "See also" thread. The reason i dared to replace it by Prokudin's work is that the latter picture is more valuable from the historical point of view and is really precious one, since it shows the appearence of kazakhs, when they still used to be nomads - the appearence you can find only in movies nowadays. i am so grateful to the person who posted it here GaiJin 08:49, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quarashi

isn't QUAZAQ just a WRONG transcription made by Westerners who thinks a Q is always followed by a U? wathiik.

If your assumption was true would it not then be QUAZAQU?

[edit] Requested move (moving discussion from Wikipedia:Requested moves)

• Kazakh → Kazakhs because they are a people, so why is the title singular? --Hottentot

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation and sign your vote with ~~~~

• Support "Kazakhs" is the name of a people, which has no singular form (a Kazakh is one person). Many other Wikipedia articles about peoples are named this way. —Michael Z. 2005-07-4 19:10 Z
• Oppose The word "Kazakh" refers to an ethnicity, a language, a culture, etc. If this article is meant to be specifically about the people, and not about that other stuff, then it should be renamed "Kazakhs" or "Kazakh people". (IIRC there was such an article, but it was merged into this one.) But it's not just about the people- there's other stuff in there too (culture, language). --Staecker 4 July 2005 19:31 (UTC)

"Kazakh" as a noun refers to a Kazakh individual. Otherwise it is an adjective, and not suitable for an article title. This article is about the Kazakh people, called the Kazakhs. Their language and culture are aspects of them. The Kazakh language and Kazakh culture already have main articles which go into more depth. —Michael Z. 2005-07-4 21:02 Z

"Kazakh" as a noun also refers to the Kazakh language. ("What language do the Kazakhs speak?" "Kazakh.") If this article is to be about the Kazakh people, then it should be called "Kazakh people." An article with the title "Kazakh" should probably be a brief summary of each of these 3 (or more) aspects (The people, The language, The culture) with links to each of the main articles. Or it could just be a standard disambig, like English. --Staecker 4 July 2005 22:43 (UTC)

But Kazakh is short for Kazakh language, the standard form for language articles in Wikipedia. Many or most articles about peoples have titles in a standard form like Kazakhs, others like Kazakhi or Kazakh people. Kazakhs is the simplest English form, and there is no conflict with other articles. See for example Category:Ethnic_groups_of_Europe. —Michael Z. 2005-07-5 17:10 Z

Yes I know "Kazakh" is short for "Kazakh language", just like English, French, German, Spanish, Japanese, etc. Note that every one of these links to a disambig. So this article (with parts removed) can move to "Kazakhs", with a redirect from "Kazakh people", and "Kazakh" can be a disambig, as in the above examples. I hope we can agree on that? I'm glad this is getting settled! --Staecker 5 July 2005 17:33 (UTC)

Sounds great! —Michael Z. 2005-07-5 18:06 Z

I guess more appropriate an analogy is to German, which I believe functions grammatically the same as the word "Kazakh". Staecker 4 July 2005 22:49 (UTC)

• Move to Kazakh people. I am entirely convinced by the above arguments and inspection of the page content, but Kazakh people is the appropriate precedent from English people, French people, German people, Spanish people, etc. Dragons flight July 9, 2005 05:05 (UTC)

But by my quick count, in Category:Ethnic groups of Europe there are 22 articles titled in a form like "Kazakh people" and 69 like "Kazakhs". —Michael Z. 2005-07-9 06:57 Z

That's a curious list. By my inspection, it would appear that most of the groups that have their name incorporated in the title of a country go by X people, and that the minor plural is used mostly for more minor groups (e.g. Moglenites, Arvanites), and ethnic classes which are primarily of historical significance (e.g. Angles, Goths). Though obvious exceptions exist, such as Greeks and Poles. I still believe that in comparison to major living ethnic groups, "Kazakh people" is the better choice of title. Dragons flight 20:32, July 9, 2005 (UTC)

• support move to Kazakhs. Reasons above. --Irpen 06:00, July 10, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Because we use singulars by policy. — Chameleon 3 July 2005 11:06 (UTC)

Well apparently it's a policy that hasn't been enforced except for this article, and it doesn't even look correct. --Hottentot

Incidentally, I've recently added a clarification to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (plurals), by specifically mentioning the titles of articles about peoples in the section about "Some nouns are always in the plural" (under #Grammatical niceties). If you have a moment, please review and comment or amend. —Michael Z. 2005-07-4 21:11 Z

Here's my list of possible titles for an article about the Kazakh people. Kazakh doesn't belong here because as a noun, it means an individual member of the Kazakh people, or the Kazakh language. Feel free to add others I haven't thought of.

Chameleon, please note that, in my opinion, even though some of these are formed from words in the plural form, they are all singular nouns representing the one Kazakh people (i.e., the nation or race). —Michael Z. 2005-07-9 15:56 Z

• Kazakhs
• Kazakh people
• Kazakhi (is that the word in Kazakh?)

The word in Kazakh is "Kazak" (noun) or "Kazaksha" (adj), I believe. Anyways it's never "Kazakhi". Staecker 9 July 2005 16:53 (UTC)

Just to set the record straight, the proper words in Kazakh are "kazak" (singular noun), "kazaktar" (plural noun, i.e. Kazakhs), "kazak" (adjective), whereas "kazaksha" is an adverb that means 'in the Kazakh language'. The proper words in Russian are "kazakh" (singular noun), "kazakhi" (plural noun, i.e. Kazakhs), "kazakhskiy" (adjective), and "po-kazakhski" ('in the Kazakh language').

• Kazakh nation

[edit] Early twentieth-century photo

There ought to be a place for this image in the article. It's a color photograph from somewhere between 1905 and 1915. Isomorphic 15:43, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

the image added back. thank you for the rare picture. GaiJin 08:40, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Borat, Sacha Baron Cohen, and the Khazar-Jew Theory

Perhaps Sacha Baron Cohen subscribes to the theory that most Ashkenazi Jews are originally from Khazaria since he chooses to base his famous Borat character out of Khazakhstan, which is roughly the same area that the Khazars/Ashkenazi Jews are proposed to originate from (see The Thirteenth Tribe). --172.151.71.190 16:02, 13 November 2006 (UTC)