Talk:List of light-rail transit systems

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What about the Long Island Rail Road (LIRR) and MetroNorth? --Ed Poor

LIRR and MetroNorth (near New York City do not qualify as light rail. They are commuter railroads and are therefore heavy rail. 129.177.61.124 08:48, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

1 Malaysia?
2 Not everything here is light rail
3 List of historic systems
4 Updates
5 You know what would make me happy?

[edit] Malaysia?

What about Malaysia, we have PUTRA LRT, STAR LRT, and Monorail?

If you know of a true Light-Rail system that should be listed but isn't, you know what to do: be bold! Make the change!

Atlant 11:16, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

If I am not wrong, they were removed because they are only "LRT"s by name. Putra and Star actually has capacities and rail guages comparable to full metro systems. The monorail might barely qualify, but again, its capacity is just unusually enormous.--Huaiwei 12:09, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

That is my belief too. Both PUTRA and STAR are already listed in the List of metro systems, so unless that is incorrect, they should not be listed here as well. Monorails are a different mode altogether and the KL Monorail is listed in the list in the Monorail article. (The KL Monorail is also listed under List of metro systems, which I think is an error). -- Chris j wood 14:32, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Not everything here is light rail

Removed Washington, DC from the list. METRO is a heavy rail, fully grade seperated metro. MARC is commuter heavy rail.

A lot of the stuff listed here is streetcar systems. Those should be broken off into their own list. --SPUI (talk) 18:32, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

How would you differentiate them? David Arthur 14:40, May 14, 2005 (UTC)

Probably by the vehicles. If it's not split, this should be renamed, though no one's succeeded in finding a term that describes both light rail and streetcar. --SPUI (talk) 15:09, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

How do you differentiate a light-rail vehicle from a streetcar, then? In many cases they refer to the same thing - the current model of streetcar used in Toronto is the 'Canadian Light Rail Vehicle', and for a more modern example, the Flexity Swift is used as 'light rail' in Minneapolis and as a tram (ie. streetcar) in London. Or do you consider 'light rail' to apply only to the more metro-style vehicles in places like Edmonton? David Arthur 20:50, May 14, 2005 (UTC)

It appears "tram" encompasses both light rail and streetcar (or a lot of the terminology used on the British articles is wrong). --SPUI (talk) 21:19, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

'Tram' certainly covers many of the systems which seem to be within your definition of 'light rail' - in Toronto at least, the same is true of the word 'streetcar', though U.S. planners don't seem to like using it for serious modern systems. There just isn't one overriding definition of 'light rail' that you can depend upon. David Arthur 22:53, May 14, 2005 (UTC)

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Current usage (and this is from my personal experience in the industry) is that streetcars tend to operate in mixed traffic (in the same place as cars and responding to stop lights, etc.), and serve a circulatory role within a particular neighborhood/area. Light Rail tends to operate primarily in an exclusive lane, and are more oriented to distance travel. This "distance travel" v "circulator" function will be expressed, in part, by the distance between the stations. Light rail will often operate with stations an average of 1 mile apart. Streetcars will stop every couple of city blocks. Consequently, light rail systems have higher operating speeds. Another telling characteristic is that streetcars are almost never operated as trains (multiple cars with a single driver), preferring to increase capacity through an increase in frequency rather than increasing capacity by linking vehicles. I have a document right here in my hand entitled "Spokane Streetcar Feasibility Study" which has a list of characteristics which differentiates streetcars from light rail (plus explanation which I have omitted) written by an engineering company which has designed both:

Streetcars are pedestrian and auto compatible;
Streetcars fit well within urban environments;
Streetcars generally operate as single cars and are not considered as high capacity transit;
Streetcars are generally focused on serving distinations within a neighborhood versus just moving through it rapidly;
Streetcar capital costs are higher than bus infrastructure but less than light rail.

Well, I guess I should have written that first. :) Brian Sayrs 00:59, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

That definition does seem to reflect how the terms are used now and in the United States, but they don’t have any particular bearing on usage elsewhere in the world, or usage in North America prior to the disappearance of streetcars from many cities. To return to Toronto as an example, streetcars ran on reserved rights-of-way in the 1920s, and as multiple-unit trains until the 1960s, but no-one ever thought that either caused them to stop being streetcars. More recently, when those in charge tried to marked the new reserved-lane Spadina line as ‘light rail’, that only caused confusion; to most people’s eyes, it remained quite clearly a streetcar. As for serving ‘a particular neighbourhood’ in a ‘circulatory role’, the 501 Queen route runs nearly 25 km, almost as far as the Bloor-Danforth subway. David Arthur 15:00, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, and that's why I said "Currently." :) The term that people use to describe a system is a marketing consideration, not an engineering one. This is why I couch my comments with "tend" and "more oriented" because it's entirely up to the community in question. For instance, in Spokane, the term "trolley" was the term used by the engineer until the Downtown Spokane Partnership objected, saying that they didn't want a trolley, they wanted a streetcar. These are not engineering distinctions, so the engineers just stopped calling it that. With Toronto, there's a continuity of terms which is understandable. Perhaps the approach we're looking for is to talk about fixed guideway systems (which is an engineering term, and easily defined), and then talk about different types and styles, the names of which are community-specific. Brian Sayrs 15:28, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

And what to do with the Metrotram system in Volgograd for example, where tram (streetcar) is used underground with stations constructed with all metro standards?--Nixer 15:57, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

That's a light-rail system, as it's separated from traffic through a central tunnel; Volgograd is a fairly unusual system, comparable in some ways to the light metros of places like Düsseldorf (on-street tram system in the outer suburbs, turning into underground railway in the center).

The problem here is there's a certain amount of overlap between the terms a) light rail and b) tram/streetcar/trolley/tramway. Single-unit running isn't a defining characteristic of trams; most European and Japanese tram systems run multiple units if required. The main criterion is segregation of the track; while light rail can, and usually does, run on streets for part of its route, it tends to be segregated from other traffic elsewhere for faster running. A tram/trolley/streetcar, on the other hand, runs (almost) entirely on public roadways.

In this sense, light rail was (in many cases) devised to produce a system with capacity approaching that of a subway system but at a lower cost. By using on-street running in central areas it runs more slowly but avoids the expense of tunneling (and has the benefits of being more visible and accessible); outside such areas segregated rail lines are preferred, but the system is flexible enough so that tunnels, bridges, or further on-street running can be used as required. Power usually comes from overhead lines (however, there are a couple of diesel light-rail systems), whereas heavy rail (subways, etc) can be powered by a third rail instead (although many also use overhead lines). ProhibitOnions ^(T) 22:41, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of historic systems

I just created a Wellington tramway system article, describing the tram network that existed in Wellington, New Zealand, up until the 1950s. However, this page doesn't seem to include former light rail systems, and I can't seem to find any page that does. Is there anywhere for such things to be listed? If there isn't, is it worth creating one? (I suspect it would be rather long). -- Vardion 05:38, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

See List of town tramway (urban tramway, streetcar) systems.

[edit] Updates

Little Rock, Arkansas' system was duplicated under both heritage streetcar and Light Rail, the Light Rail reference was removed. The Charlotte, North Carolina system was moved from proposed to existing due to its pending opening, and the Atlanta, Georgia heritage streetcar system was marked proposed. --Kardous 23:19, 23 July 2006 (UTC)