Talk:Pacifica

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This is yet another online fantasy micronation writing POV articles about itself. Text is mostly fantasy.

I think so. This article needs serious NPOV-ing. Lorenzarius 13:03 Jan 19, 2003 (UTC)

I have simply erased it. I don't want to see an stupid edit war occuring here. The article should at the very list state upfront that the entity referred to is a MICRONATION and has nothing to do with a Nation State. Using the Wikipedia countries template is very confusing. olivier 13:05 Jan 19, 2003 (UTC)

What does deserve an article is Pacifica Radio, a small but real network of US radio stations. Will attempt a beginning. Vicki Rosenzweig

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I don't know if it is like this we reply here but I will use it

The Empire of Pacifica is NOT a fantasy micronation NOR is fantasy the facts related to it.

I would like to know on what legal facts are you basing yourself to state that.

Diana Couto Secreatary of State

Real nations have territories they govern. They have diplomatic relations with other nations. They collect taxes. They have citizens (or subjects) who are required to obey their laws.

What is the address of the Pacifica mission to the United Nations?

Promoting Portuguese culture is a worthy goal, but it does not make a nation. Vicki Rosenzweig

Pacifica is a Primarily non-territorial nation (like Atlantium and the Order of Malta)

we have diplomatic relations with other Nations, I can recall the Kingdom of Pictland - in Exile (scotland) among otheres I can't recall now

we do not collect taxes as we belive that a state should provide services to it's citizens for wish they pay for... there is no logic some one paying for something they will never use

The Empire of Pacifica has 56 citizens world wide

we do not, and are not forced to, have a misson to the UN

Pacifica was made the Culture of Portugal a part of its own by adopting the Portuguese Language

Diana Couto Secreatary of State

Please do not waste our time with these nonsensical assertions unless you have some documented proof of your claims. I have visited the "Pacifica" website, and no such proof is evident. There is no postal or street address, no phone number, no real names for persons involved and in fact no documentation of any kind to suggest that Pacifica consists of anything more than a badly-designed website - with content moreover that has been copied in part from copyrighted content elsewhere on the web. Pacifica is an online imaginary country. End of story. Incidentally, "Pictland" is another fantasy website country. The kingdom of the Picts has been extinct for well over 1000 years, and any suggestion that some lunatic living in Alaska is "King of the Picts" is precisely that - utter lunacy.

Even if we accepted this, it's not grounds for removing the material about the real, significant Pacifica Radio network. Vicki Rosenzweig

The radio stuff is obviously legit, and should remain.

Please state what copyrithed material you are mentioning???????

About the Picts it is active and has more than 700000 citizens and an anbassador in the Spain (I have been to the embassy)

as for removing the material about Pacifica Radio Network they were the ones that Removed the data form Pacifca and not the other way arround

Diana Couto Secreatary of State

And what site are you refering to by the way?????

Diana Couto Secreatary of State

Please do not remove my edits to this page. I asked before, that, following the Wikipedia rules, you sign your contributions to this discussion page. By "signing" I meant signing with a valid Wikipedia user name or IP address, which you do not have. Please register and do not disguise yourself if you want to begin to be taken seriously. olivier 14:32 Jan 19, 2003 (UTC)

I am sorry, I only realised that I had erased your request for my signature after I saved the page

(I will do the previews now)

Diana Couto Secreatary of State of Pacifica

Pictland is a *website* fantasy. It is *not* a real country. It has not even *existed* for over 1000 years. It most certainly does *not* have 700,000 citizens! If you can produce the *slightest* piece of evidence to support your ludicrous assertions then I welcome it - however I won't be holding my breath waiting. Concerning copyrighted material on the Pacifica website, the "emperor's" welcome message and FAQ appear to have been copied directly from the website of Atlantium. The FAQ in particular is almost a word-for-word copy. Gene Poole

As I read these articles.I am left to wonder about the credibility of wikipedia.I qualify this statement by the following,1)a lunatic living in alaska,claiming to be the King of the Picts.Is the poster of these slanderous claimes.qualified to make such a enflamatory statement on such a public document.say the personal psycologist.of the said king of the picts?I wonder.

And for those who are not familiar with history.Was not Isreal once a kingdom which existed well over 1000 years ago.Her people were known as isrealites.They to had people who claimed to be their leaders.yet the state of Isreal was a fantasy until 1948.When the sovereign nation of palistine. was partioned to give them a homeland.what qualifies you or any of us to judge a people.just because of our own beliefs.There is plenty of imperical evidence and documentation.which places a kingdom of the northern picts.In northern scotland as late as the 16th century.Is 400 years really that long?No considering the case of isreal.If this is not enough consider the basques.If anyone has spent any time in either Scotland or ireland.You would find that these people have long memories.to them 400 years might as well of happened last week.to hear them tell it.

And does not a people denote a nation?If there are 700,000 people who claim to be Pictish.Then according to the UN and International law.The Picts do exist as a people.and if this is true.their king may exist to.have you ever stopped to consider.That over 30 clans and families in Scotland.My own included are of Pictish origin.Around the world,this would number in the millions of people.Is 700,000 people impossible,I think not.This number may even grow in the future.If events continue as they are in Scotland.

Trimmed back again.

1. This social club with 57 members does not appear to have done anything that would merit an encyclopedia article.
2. They've already got their own website: Wikipedia is not a free webhosting site
3. If they did merit an article, they certainly shouldn't be writing it themselves

The Anome

Warning to the person signing "Diana Couto": the next step after this warning and your stubborn disruptive changes is a ban. Please be considerate. olivier 14:40 Jan 19, 2003 (UTC)

There are two options here:

1. remove all "Empire of Pacifica" related claims and ban this user if she persists adding them
2. try to create an NPOV article here like we did for Atlantium. However, the amount of substantial, verifiable information is considerably smaller. In any case, that article should be at Empire of Pacifica, not here.

I am inclined to support option 1 but if someone wants to spend the time and effort of making option 2 a reality, I would support that as well. --Eloquence

Wikipedia is not a homepage provider or a place for people to test anarchy (#7, 14 and 17). This micronation of a "group of friends" needs to be removed. --mav

1. Pacifica left the article about the Radio on the same topic why can't you leave the corect information in there as well????

2. why this war agains us??? when we got here we just added the information about us in the topic there was nothing there about the Radio

3. If you want to write the article go ahead, afterwards send it to us for approval

Diana Couto Secreatary of State of Pacifica

Why have you removed "micronation" from your article? We disagree (no "war", please be realistic) with you because you are trying to misrepresent what Pacifica is. I have no intention to write an article on Pacifica at all, thanks. But if there is information about it in Wikipedia, it should be of encyclopedic nature. Period. olivier 15:03 Jan 19, 2003 (UTC)

To you for approval? Are you insane? We are a serious neutral encyclopedia and would never dream of sending articles to be approved by POV parties. --mav

Oliver it seams like you and I are getting some were (at least it seams that you are tring to solve a problem)

Are you wiling in working with me to turn the article we submited the 1st time to something that we both agree????

Diana Couto Secreatary of State of Pacifica

Every Wikipedia user is equal, or almost. Therefore, I have zero authority on what is written in Wikipedia. Just like you, I can simply write and edit articles, or request the ban of other disruptive users. Whatever is written in an article by you or by myself will be subject to changes by the Wikipedia community. That's the reason why, we believe, we tend to have NPOV articles. You have received a lot of feedback thus far by active and respected Wikipedians. Since you know the subject better, why don't you write something that will likely reach consensus? If you have questions, feel free to ask them on this talk page. We are dedicated to the Wikipedia project and want to have a constructive attitude. Making blind changes to other people' contributions will not make you earn you any point. Nor will making deceptive statements or misrepresentations in articles be welcome. Be respectful of others: if other users have made changes to your article, they probably had good and objective reasons to do so. Please take the time to read the Wikipedia:Neutral point of view and micronation articles, and if you wish to expand on the "Kingdom of Pacifica" in an article, please be respectful of the rules of the Wikipedia project and keep it of encyclopedic nature. Thanks. olivier 15:43 Jan 19, 2003 (UTC)

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It appears our "Fifth World" contributors are coming here because of a news posting on their website (quote: "Fifthworlders do not like to group themselves with the internet variety of micronations"). [1] --Mrwojo

let me try to explain something

"Fifth World" - is a terminology created by a gentelman of TTF (a micronation) that was supose to group all nations seeking recognition from the international community

The problem here is that the word micronation is associated with simulation due to several news on the press, specially in Brasil. Therefore we prefare to ignore the name micronation and use the larger expression State of the World seeking Recognition

Diana Couto Secreatary of State of Pacifica

THAT would be something interesting to explain in an article about Pacifica. olivier 15:48 Jan 19, 2003 (UTC)

Oliver

The change I made does not invalidate my post to you

I still want to write something that has the agreement of both of us

Diana Couto Secreatary of State of Pacifica

Oliver can you give me your e-mail so I can send you a proposal????

Diana Couto Secreatary of State of Pacifica

I respect your willingness to work on that issue. I am not communicating by email with anyone on Wikipedia. All my contributions, to articles or talks to people are made directly on Wikipedia. My suggestion: why don't you register properly? You will automatically have a personal page created on Wikipedia. Then you can post a draft of your article on your page, and we (and other interested people) can work on this article. olivier 15:56 Jan 19, 2003 (UTC)

Oliver Check it out http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Pacifica

All of you are also welcome to check it but pleas do not modify the orininal proposal (copy it again and make changes on your copy so we can all keep track of the diferent changes and the original Proposal)

thank you

Diana Couto Secreatary of State of Pacifica

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Note to Wikipedians: User:Pacifica has made efforts by registering and placing a draft article on her page. I invite those interested in this discussion to have a look at it and contribute at User talk:Pacifica. Thanks. olivier 16:56 Jan 19, 2003 (UTC)

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[edit] VfD Archived discussion

Article listed on Wikipedia:Votes for deletion Apr 26 to May 3 2004, consensus was to remove the micronation content and turn into a disambig page. Discussion:

Yet another irrelevant, defunct internet fantasy micronation. Unverifiable rubbish content. --Gene_poole 01:15, 26 Apr 2004 (UTC)

• Turn into a disambig page for the place in California and the radio listing mentioned at the top of the article. Kill the micronation content. -- Graham :) | Talk 01:20, 26 Apr 2004 (UTC)
• Agree with Graham :). Does anybody else get the feeling that Mr. Poole is listing these as some sort of protest against Avram's listing on VfD? -- Cyrius|&#9998 02:58, Apr 26, 2004 (UTC)
  • Possibly, but if he's listing things for deletion that need to be deleted, I'm not complaining. Revise as stated by Graham :) - Average Earthman 11:52, 26 Apr 2004 (UTC)
• I'm simply applying basic scholarly principles. There's a big difference between ephemeral Internet fantasies and entities that exist and are verifiable in the real world by sources other than Google. --Gene_poole 06:56, 26 Apr 2004 (UTC)
  • Comment: I think that means 'yes'. But no vote at this stage. Andrewa 11:26, 26 Apr 2004 (UTC)
• Delete micronation content. Agree with Graham (and Average Earthman, for that matter). Niteowlneils 16:46, 26 Apr 2004 (UTC)
• What Niteowlneils said. RickK 23:10, 26 Apr 2004 (UTC)
• Does no one else think it unseemly for the "Emperor" of "Atlantium" to nominate his rival micronations for deletion? Bloodless coups, but nonetheless an unbecoming attempt to aggrandize himself and the apartment-nation for which he stands... - Tweak 23:17, 26 Apr 2004 (UTC)
  • Comment: Leaving aside the accuracy of your observation concerning Atlantium, it is neither unseemly nor self-aggrandizement to seek the removal of content that is completely unverifiable by sources other than a single website.
• Erase micronation content and make it a disambiguation page as suggested by Graham. Wile E. Heresiarch 01:32, 27 Apr 2004 (UTC)
• Purge of micronation content and make into disambig page, as above. Postdlf 5:04 27 Apr 2004 (UTC)
• Pacifica? Isn't that a town in California? Keep the title, but change this obscure stuff into something else. The word is obviously a real word, as people have marveled over the palindromic ACIFICA in it for years, so it's useful as a title. For something. Wiwaxia 05:17, 28 Apr 2004 (UTC)
• Disambiguate, minus the fantasy micronation, or delete. -Sean 03:22, 29 Apr 2004 (UTC)

End archived discussion