Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Jean-Thierry Boisseau
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Case Opened on 21:33, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
Case Closed on 06:38, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
Please do not edit this page directly unless you wish to become a participant in this request. (All participants are subject to Arbitration Committee decisions, and the ArbCom will consider each participant's role in the dispute.) Comments are very welcome on the Talk page, and will be read, in full. Evidence, no matter who can provide it, is very welcome at /Evidence. Evidence is more useful than comments.
Arbitrators will be working on evidence and suggesting proposed decisions at /Workshop and voting on proposed decisions at /Proposed decision.
[edit] Involved parties
- Jean-Thierry Boisseau (talk • contribs • logs • block user • block log) formerly part of Musikfabrik (talk • contribs • logs • block user • block log)
- Adam Cuerden (talk • contribs • logs • block user • block log)
- Folantin (talk • contribs • logs • block user • block log)
- Moreschi (talk • contribs • logs • block user • block log)
- Makemi (talk • contribs • logs • block user • block log)
- Ssilvers (talk • contribs • logs • block user • block log)
[edit] Requests for comment
[edit] Statement by party 1
User:Jean-Thierry Boisseau, formerly part of the banned group-username User:Musikfabrik has begun a course of bullying, personal attacks, and generally making things awful for all contributors at Talk:List of major opera composers and List of major opera composers.
Examples (You may find it easier to read the other party's statements first - this is largely a collection of annotated evidence.):
- Talk:List_of_major_opera_composers/Archive3#Please do not add or delete any information from this article until the term "major opera composer" has been defined - Early bullying.
- User_talk:Makemi#Gender_bias_issues - Accusations by him flying thick and fast.
- Talk:List_of_major_opera_composers/Archive3#Adding unsourced statements - here's where he removed a reference because it didn't contain a page number. Also shows Folantin and Moreschi's contribution.
- Talk:List_of_major_opera_composers/Archive3#One_major_POV_issue_to_be_resolved - Here's where it came out he was part of a collective.
- Talk:List_of_major_opera_composers/Archive4#Not_so_fast.__There_is_obvious_POV_gender_bias_here - I fully enter the dispute. (I can't get this one to go straight to the section in question - click on "Not so fast. There is obvious POV gender bias here" in the Table of Contents if there's difficulty.)
Adam Cuerden talk 07:08, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
For an example of Musikfabrik's promotion, compare these:
Finally, in rebuttal to Boisseau's comment below, I would point out the final list contains several living people: Menotti, Adams, and Glass. For an overview of four and a half centuries of composition (which began in Europe), this is not unreasonable. Adam Cuerden talk 00:30, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
In the interest of fairness, it seems appropriate to here list what seems to be the worst of my behaviour in this case: In the section above, under "I fully enter the dispute", I, after Boisseau mentioned he was getting a professor to use my actions and my talk page as an example of sexist behaviour in his or her class, told him to shut up. I have since apologised. I would strongly suggest, however, that the professor be asked to strip all names and not provide links, as it seems slanderous to use trying to obey Wikipedia guidelines as they then stood and as Musikfabrik (whoever it was at the time) initially supported as evidence to teach that I and others are sexist under our own names.
Perhaps more questionably, I have submitted several Musikfabrik-related articles for Deletion Jean-Thierry Boisseau, Paul Wehage, etc, and removed all Musikfabrik-contributed composers from others. In my defence, I did this only after he said in section 2 that Musikfabrik was primarily for promotion, save one much earlier, List of organ composers, which I had discussed with him. Adam Cuerden talk 12:01, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Statement by party 2
- It was never hidden that the username Musikfabrik was attached to a music publisher and that the articles being contributed were made for composers published by this organization, as is evidenced here - [[1]]. It should also be noted that the first post that was made on this talk page uses "We" and "Our". We had no idea about this "Role Account" rule and it was never brought to our attention. However, we have been honest and upfront about what we were doing from the beginning. Our additions to Germaine Tailleferre (the only documented complete list of her works anywhere) Gold and Fizdale, Alice Esty, Category:Works by Germaine Tailleferre speak for themselves.
- However, as I have clearly stated, it was never our intention to try to get Germaine Tailleferre on this list (as has been repeatedly suggested on the page Talk:List_of_major_opera_composers, as she does not qualify, purely and simply. Using this tactic in a discussion concerning POV issues in the specific article List of major opera composers is clearly beside the point.
- When my colleague Paul Wehage began editing on the article List of major opera composers there were no sources, no women listed, no living composers, no non-European composers and the selection process was done in a collegial manner without using any sources or definition of the []term "important" or even "opera". Certain issues have been resolved, not without much discussion and intrigue, but sources which could have resolved the POV gender bias issues have been ignored at best and surpressed at worst (as the discussion here would suggest User_talk:Adam_Cuerden#Judith_Weir). The International Alliance of Women in Music [2] was involved was means of getting sources which documented the importance of women in Opera; Three sources out of that discussion were proposed on the page Talk:List_of_major_opera_composers/Archive3#NPOV as was information about Kaija Saariaho among others, all of which was ignored or dismissed because this material only contained inforation about women. Yet, of the ten lists used to create the new contents of List_of_major_opera_composers, six contained the names of only men. The other four contained one or two women. When women (as is the case of Saariaho, Libby Larsen, Judith Weir and many others) have operas commissioned and performed by major festivals and major houses, staged and performed by major stage directors and singers, and recorded on major labels and none are seen as being important because information which could prove this claim is being deliberately surpressed, it would seem to me to be quite clear that an sexist agenda at work here.
- As it stands, this article gives the message to the public that no women, no non-Europeans and very few living composers were "important opera composers". This statement is only possible because of the sources used. If other sources taking into account more recent research, compositions and performances, the information could be presented in an entirely different light. The point of all of this is that there is a great deal of resistent to change in the entire category of Opera, with a definite bias against anything outside of the accepted canons of "standard repertoire". While it is clear that these notions of "standard repertoire" should be included, what is also clear is that other sources which document other aspects of this subject outside of these "established canons" which are generally published in sources after the "general repertoire" sources should also be taken into account. While the regional bias and the bias towards "Dead White Males" is also clearly an issue and should also be addressed, the gender bias is an entirely objective and clearcut criteria in which there can be no argument. I fail to see how it is more neutral to dismiss the works of more than 50% of Mankind, simply because of the conventions of "standard repertoire" and inspite of sources which could easily prove the contrary.
- My primary issue with this list is its existence: How can a List of major opera composers ever claim neutrality, given what it is in the first place? Jean-Thierry Boisseau 13:42, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Statement by Party 3
The Musikfabrik account was blocked as a role account. We were not informed that it was a role account until extensive detective work by Folantin forced an admission that it was so. That account, so it seemed, was largely comprised of 2 people: Paul Wehage (who was often incivil and engaged in pointless POV battles), and Jean-Thierry Boisseau, who removed an inline citation as not having a page number and added inaccurate information to the list. This latter has also accused basically everyone involved in this case as being both sexist and lazy (see Makemi's talk page, link above). For the record, I also resent being labeled anti-Semitic. The imputation that I have a bias against contemporary composers is also wrong.
Jean-Thierry Boisseau's actions have not been entirely for the worse. His badgering led to the addition of 40-odd inline citations to the previously unreferenced list by myself and Folantin. Once this had been done, however, he then engaged in a move war with myself. I moved the list (following an idea endorsed by Jimbo Wales in a similar case) to List of opera composers considered major. My edit summary explained that this softened the POV, though it did not remove it altogether. He immediately, with no discussion, re-moved the list to List of composers of opera, claiming that anything else would be POV. Not only was his solution useless as it duplicated The opera corpus, but in my opinion the primary reason for his doing so was to be able to include spectacularly obscure composers on the Musik Fabrik roster , such as Germaine Tailleferre (and, for that matter himself, as he alleges that he has written an opera). After another bout of moves, we wound back up at the original title. Not only did were his moves preemptory and treated me as a vandal by reverting with no discussion, but then he left a flagrantly incivil message on my talk page.
Matters have recently descended from bad to worse after an edit war last night that sparked off this RFAR. Perhaps I should try to explain why there are no women on that list, even though now plenty of contemporary composers have been included. We took a decision, per Jimbo’s suggestion at the link I provided above, to compile our list using extant independent lists. This was done. The female composer with the most number of cites was Judith Weir, with 4 out of a maximum of 10. The cut off for inclusion has decided by consensus at 7 (yes, that may be minor POV, but what can you do?). Historically women have contributed very little to operatic history – not their fault, it’s the fault of past sexist societies, but we can’t change that, and there just hasn’t been enough time to see whether operas by female opera composers currently writing will survive and stay in the repertoire. Musikfabrik only contributed one list, which was quite rightly judged unreliable as it wasn’t a list, but a list of composers done to date on a website under construction. Moreschi 14:16, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Statement by Party 4
First, I feel I must state in the strongest possible terms that I find Boisseau's accusation of anti-Semitism deeply offensive. It is obvious from the context that my interest in the three names was whether they were male composers or not and therefore whether Germaine Tailleferre was the only woman composer on the lists. For instance, it is not clear to English speakers whether "Jan" is a man or a woman. I was unaware of the composers' nationalities (with the exception of Lior Navok). It seems Geirr Tveitt is a Norwegian, not an Israeli. I have no idea about Friedlin's nationality or ethnicity. This kind of trolling and bad faith interpretation has been typical of Boisseau's behaviour.
The main point is that Boisseau (and Paul Wehage and whoever else used the Musikfabrik alias - and it was not clear that it was a collective user) have made major contributions to pages with outstanding NPOV issues arising because of their presence and the presence of other Musik Fabrik composers, leading to a conflict of interest. They did not address such issues before moving on to List of major opera composers. This arosed suspicions as to their motives. I was led to investigate User:Musikfabrik only after he/they began following me round my other contributions and harrassing me. So much for accusations of a "witch hunt". --Folantin 15:32, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Statement by Party 5
Boisseau's bullying is extroadinary. He has, at various times, threatened to delete the "unsourced statements" in the flagship Opera article (stating that all the statements there are unsourced, although this is not true--they're just not in-line cited) and the several Opera Projects lists. The fact is that no female opera composers have been as important to the field of opera as the top 30, 50 or even 70 men, according to the majority of secondary sources. I hope this changes in the future, but Boisseau cannot claim that this fact is POV. The Opera project members searched diligently for authoritative lists of "major" opera composers published by reliable sources and found 10 reputable lists. If one creates a list of opera composers noted in 7 of those 10 lists, there are 53 men and no women. In fact, only one woman opera composer is named on as many as four out of the 10 lists, and there are a very large number of composers named on only 4 lists -- too many to make a meaningful list of "major" composers. Of all the opera composers shown in the opera corpus (hundreds) only 17 are women, and, so far, none of them is sufficiently notable to be included in this list. One editor should not bully the consensus of editors into destroying the NPOV criteria agreed on for compilation of this list, and his incivility and harassment deserve a permanent block on the account. -- Ssilvers 16:04, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Statement by Makemi
It is not entirely clear to me that arbitration is the appropriate step to take at this time, but here is my view of recent events. I blocked the account User:Musikfabrik after it came to my attention that it was being used by multiple people, in contravention of Wikipedia policy. There were other problems with this account, but that is the sole reason I blocked it. The account User:Jean-Thierry Boisseau was then created. This account then failed to assume good faith on my part, accusing me of blocking the account in order disrupt discussion at List of major opera composers, and of being a sexist tool of the establishment (which even a cursory review of my contributions should show to be blatantly false and supremely offensive). Jean-Thierry also failed to assume good faith on the parts of other members of the opera project, calling them lazy and sexist, despite that they were clearly working hard to source material and make it neutral.
It is difficult to separate the problems with the Musikfabrik account from the problems with the Jean-Thierry Boisseau account, but I believe we must. Some of the most inflammatory comments made by Musikfabrik I do not believe were made by Jean-Thierry Boisseau. In this case we must also what action to take regarding Musikfabrik's contributions, as it now; it seems that these were made in order to promote a corporation. Jean-Thierry has categorized attempts to discover POV a "witch hunt" which I see as a continued failure to assume good faith. His comments today about anti-semitism simply further show this lack of assuming good faith. I am not entirely pleased with how all the members of the opera project have acquitted themselves in this matter, however I see it as people who have worked hard and diligently to create a more NPOV article who then had extremely offensive names flung at them, despite this hard work and genuine motives. Mak (talk) 16:33, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Preliminary decisions
[edit] Arbitrators' opinions on hearing this matter (4/0/0/0)
- Accept. Charles Matthews 16:18, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
- Accept. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 20:38, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- Accept. Jayjg (talk) 22:22, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
- Accept. Dmcdevit·t 07:27, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Temporary injunction (none)
[edit] Final decision
All numbering based on /Proposed decision (vote counts and comments are there as well)
[edit] Principles
[edit] Courtesy
1) Users are expected to be reasonably courteous to each other and to assume good faith.
- Passed 6 to 0 at 06:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Conflict of interest
2) Wikipedia:Conflict of interest, a guideline, requires that the interests of the encyclopedia come before the business interests of contributors. Editing by those who disrupt the editing process by aggressively and persistently advocating information favorable to their business interests may be appropriately limited. Application of such remedies should be proportional to the degree and type of disruption which has resulted.
- Passed 6 to 0 at 06:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Experts with conflicts of interest
3) A significant portion of the experts in most fields are engaged in some business venture related to the field. It is desirable that such experts participate in Wikipedia, but important that both they and others appropriately deal with conflict of interest issues.
- Passed 6 to 0 at 06:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Wikipedia is not a battleground
4) Wikipedia is not an appropriate venue for competitive business practices such as struggle for shelf space, see Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_battleground.
- Passed 6 to 0 at 06:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Wikipedia is not a soapbox
5) Wikipedia is not an appropriate venue for social or political struggle; see Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_soapbox.
- Passed 6 to 0 at 06:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Neutral point of view
6) Wikipedia:Neutral point of view mandates that all significant points of view shall be fairly represented in articles.
- Passed 6 to 0 at 06:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] "Consensus" never trumps NPOV
7) No agreement by Wikipedia editors, however rationalized, overrides Wikipedia:Neutral point of view.
- Passed 6 to 0 at 06:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Wikipedia is dynamic
9) Wikipedia is a wiki, subject to continual editing and correction as events unfold. As applied to the instant case, Wikipedia is able to adequately accommodate listing, in an appropriate article, of women opera composers. As public and critical reaction accumulates appropriate revisions can be made using the wiki process.
- Passed 6 to 0 at 06:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Creative solutions and original research
10) Wikipedia is a reporter of existing knowledge. Creative solutions regarding how to better fulfill that project are welcomed; however, creative solutions about how to increase or refine knowledge violate a basic principle, Wikipedia:No original research. There is strong consensus supporting the principle that Wikipedia is a compendium of existing knowledge, not a vehicle for the advancement of knowledge.
- Passed 6 to 0 at 06:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Wikipedia is not an advertising venue
12) Wikipedia is not an appropriate venue for the advertisement of new or unrecognized artists or works.
- Passed 6 to 0 at 06:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Findings of Fact
[edit] Musik Fabrik
1) Musik Fabrik is a music publishing company. Its website is at http://www.classicalmusicnow.com/ Talk:List_of_major_opera_composers/Archive3#One_major_POV_issue_to_be_resolved.
- Passed 6 to 0 at 06:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] User:Musikfabrik
2) Musikfabrik (talk • contribs • logs • block user • block log), which has been banned as a multiuser, or role, account was used by a number of persons associated with Musik Fabrik, including Paul Wehage, the artistic director and main researcher at Musik Fabrik and Jean-Thierry Boisseau, [3] and Talk:List_of_major_opera_composers/Archive3#One_major_POV_issue_to_be_resolved.
- Passed 5 to 0 at 06:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Jean-Thierry Boisseau
3) Jean-Thierry Boisseau, an associate of Musik Fabrik, edits as Jean-Thierry Boisseau (talk • contribs • logs • block user • block log). Until it was banned as a multiuser account he edited as Musikfabrik (talk • contribs • logs • block user • block log), User:Jean-Thierry Boisseau and Talk:List_of_major_opera_composers/Archive3#One_major_POV_issue_to_be_resolved.
- Passed 6 to 0 at 06:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Promotion of Musik Fabrik composers
4) Jean-Thierry Boisseau, editing as Musikfabrik has added composers [4] who are listed in the Musik Fabrik catalog Guitar catalog. User Musikfabrik was quite candid about use of Wikipedia articles to promote Musik Fabrik composers [5].
- Passed 6 to 0 at 06:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Failure of Jean-Thierry Boisseau to assume good faith
5) Jean-Thierry Boisseau has failed to assume good faith Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Jean-Thierry_Boisseau/Evidence#Jean-Thierry_Boisseau_is_extremely_quick_to_leap_to_accusations. See also this, third sentence and this.
- Passed 6 to 0 at 06:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Rudeness by Jean-Thierry_Boisseau
6) Jean-Thierry_Boisseau has been rude, Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Jean-Thierry_Boisseau/Evidence#User:Musikfabrik_was_rude.
- Passed 4 to 0 with 2 abstentions at 06:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Jean-Thierry Boisseau's superior tone
7) Jean-Thierry Boisseau has at times taken a superior tone in relation to other editors, Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Jean-Thierry_Boisseau/Evidence#Involved_professionals.2Finformed_amateurs. This may represent a more sophisticated approach, or not, but it irritated other editors.
- Passed 6 to 0 at 06:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] The issue of gender bias
8) The issue of gender bias in the selection of lists of opera composers was vigorously raised by Jean-Thierry Boisseau by claiming, "it would seem to me to be quite clear that an sexist agenda at work here," Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Jean-Thierry_Boisseau#Statement_by_party_2, [6], Talk:List_of_major_opera_composers/Archive4#Not_so_fast.__There_is_obvious_POV_gender_bias_here, Talk:List_of_major_opera_composers/Archive3#NPOV.
- Passed 6 to 0 at 06:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Women opera composers
9) It was determined by the editing process that there were no women opera composers "sufficiently notable to be included in [List of major opera composers]," Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Jean-Thierry_Boisseau#Statement_by_Party_5
- Passed 6 to 0 at 06:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Outside parties
10) Jean-Thierry Boisseau has invited the interest of outside organizations concerned with the advancement of women musicians [7].
- Passed 6 to 0 at 06:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Remedies
Note: All remedies that refer to a period of time, for example to a ban of X months or a revert parole of Y months, are to run concurrently unless otherwise stated.
[edit] Users affiliated with Musik Fabrik
1) Jean-Thierry Boisseau and other users affiliated with Musik Fabrik are banned from editing any article dealing with artists or projects listed in their sales catalog. Further, they may not add any such artist or project to any article. There is no restriction on making suggestions or participating in discussions on talk pages.
- Passed 6 to 0 at 06:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Jean-Thierry Boisseau placed on probation
2) Jean-Thierry Boisseau is placed on probation. He may be banned from any article or talk page which he disrupts. All bans to be logged at Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Jean-Thierry_Boisseau#Log_of_blocks_and_bans.
- Passed 5 to 1 at 06:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Enforcement
[edit] Enforcement by block
1) Any bans imposed under this decision may be enforced by blocking the offender for a period of up to a week. All blocks to be logged at Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Jean-Thierry_Boisseau#Log_of_blocks_and_bans.
- Passed 6 to 0 at 06:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Log of blocks and bans
Log any block, ban or extension under any remedy in this decision here. Minimum information includes name of administrator, date and time, what was done and the basis for doing it.
