User talk:A. B.

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This user is currently temporarily inactive.

This may be due to the user's vacation, lack of an Internet connection, or other reasons. This does not imply the violation of any Wikipedia policies.

A. B. is taking a wikibreak for some obvious reasons and will be back on Wikipedia sometime in the future ... 3128 edits and holding

As of 19:40, 8 November 2006 I'm on a Wikibreak for an indeterminate time

e-mail me if you need me

Contents 1 Universal Powerline Association 2 Roblog 3 NEED SOME HELP 4 Thank you for supporting my RfA 5 Herbalife 6 Thank you... 7 Follow up on User Discussion on Mobile Phone 8 RfA thanks 9 Spamstar! 10 Obviously, you need one 11 thanks for the barnstar 12 RfA Oppose Changed to Support Thanks! 13 Mobile phone brain damage coverup 14 My RfA 15 RfA thanks! 16 Thanks for the email 17 Appalachia 18 Harry M. Caudill/Appalachian Regional Commission 19 Disagreements can be good. 20 RFA Thanks 21 SPAM? 22 Appalachian Mountains 23 Thanks for your support!

[edit] Universal Powerline Association

Hi A.B. Thanks for the supporting messages on my discussion page. My first page Universal Powerline Association. I am concerned because eliminating this page and not eliminating the alternative page for HomePlug would cause a NPOV problem. I am mystified. Can you advise how to move forward?--Upaplc 10:36, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi -- I've responded at these locations:

• User talk:Upaplc
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Universal Powerline Association
• Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Universal Powerline Association
• User talk:RHaworth

I have to hit the road -- I'm sorry I can't help more at this time. --A. B. 13:51, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the time to look in to this --Upaplc 15:06, 10 November 2006 (UTC) I noticed your edit, and I just wanted to point out that the edit refers to the Operation section of this article and not the article in general. I just thought that this bit of the article was rather techy... no offense intended. In any case I am following the guideline you pasted on my talk page now and staying hands off.--Upaplc 15:20, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Roblog

Hi A.B., re your comment on the talk page, FYI, the normal practise if you agree with the prod is to use {{prod-2}}. This helps administrators who ultimately have to decide whether to delete the article, know that at least two people concur. I hope I'm not teaching you to suck eggs or that there may have been another reason you didn't. Regards — Moondyne 02:33, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. I guess I'll just have to suck eggs for a while -- I never knew this. It would be good if they mentioned this in WP:PROD. --A. B. 07:02, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NEED SOME HELP

Hello A.B. I need some help dealing with wiki and I am unsure how to proceed, but reading your comments you seem to be a sympathetic type. Could I ask you some questions CONFIDENTIALLY? Anonypig, new Wiki member. --Anonypig 17:36, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Maybe -- I'm pretty busy, both on and off Wikipedia. I looked at the Jan Cox page and left a comment on the talk page. My main suggestion would be to really get familiar with Wikpedia policies and only add stuff that's totally neutral and verifiable. I also suggest putting your proposed text on the talk page first for a few days for others to look at for discussion first. As for text you want to alter or delete, I suggest posting that on the talk page for a few days first. My experience is that if you're editing a controversial article, you want to have absolutely "clean hands" per Wikipedia policies. You also want to bend over backwards to try for consensus, using the talk page. Even if all your stuff gets reversed, you've laid the ground work for making it stick. The more you stick to the rules, the more it challenges those you disagree with to either put up or shut up. Either they have to play by the same rules or appear biased. The nice thing is that this dynamic, if cultivated, ultimately forces both sides to hammer out a factual, NPOV, encyclopedic article.

So what I've written here and on the article's talk page is probably pretty much what I'd write in private, but feel free to send me an e-mail if you think otherwise. --A. B. 18:14, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you A.B, I will follow your advice. Anonypig

[edit] Thank you for supporting my RfA

Thank you for your support in my RfA, which passed with a final tally of (56/0/2). It was great to see so much kind support from such competent editors and administrators as commented on my RfA. I know I have much reading to do before I'll feel comfortable enough to use some of the more powerful admin tools, so I'll get right to it. Again, thanks; └ OzLawyer / talk ┐ 13:41, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Herbalife

Thanks for your comments on my page. I understand what you are saying, but I'd just like to make it clear that I was not vandalising or putting unfair POV- I will try to find a citation to back up what I said.

Plooft

I was not trying to pick on you. It's just that article is a lightning rod for pro- and anti-Herbalife warfare. I've tried to get it as neutral as positive, sticking to very mainstream sources for any controversies -- SEC documents filed by the company itself, recent (last 5 years or so) articles from major newspapers, etc.

There's a ton of negative stuff out there from the 1990s but the company has had management changes at the top since then, so I'm not sure it should be included. Alternately, if it is included, it should not take up a large portion of the article and should be prefaced by something like "Under a previous management team, Herbalife was involved in multiple controversies ...."

There are multiple anti-Herbalife websites. They are not appropriate references (unless they are hosting an article from a major newspaper that is otherwise unavailable elsewhere on the web). They do sometimes have links, however, to encyclopedia-quality newspaper articles that can be used. You'll notice that they don't have nearly as much stuff from recent years as from the 1990s.

The same is true of any pro-Herbalife web sites; they may point you to useful stuff, but they're not good sources themselves.

It's reporting on Herbalife controversies, it's also important to be careful about who's engaging in what behaviors: is it Herbalife, a Herbalife distributor, or Herbalife distributors acting in concert with Herbalife? That's an important distinction and is central to Herbalife's West Virginia litigation. (Herbalife says the alleged misbehavior undertaken by its distributors was in violation of Herbalife policies; the state says they were in cahoots.)

Finally, I'd keep the opening paragraph simple as it is now and save any controversies (or awards) for the body of the article.

Ultimately, this is an encyclopedia, not a promote-Herbalife or debunk-Herbalife website.

--A. B. 17:09, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you...

...for your support of my recent RfA. I know that you are very careful with your support votes, and I am honored that you would consider me worthy of the mop. If I can be of any helo with my new tools or just as a pair of disinterested eyes to review an article, do not hesitate to ask. Cheers. youngamerican (ahoy hoy) 18:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Follow up on User Discussion on Mobile Phone

Hi AB. Please find discussion opened on the source of the reference I used on the discussion page of Mobile Phone. Thanks AntB

AntB, you are probably right about my edit summary for the link reversion but I disagree some of your other comments. To keep all my comments in one place, I have responded to your comments here and elsewhere at Talk:Mobile phone#Removed valid reference link.

I agree with your actions A.B. and have said so on the talkpage as well as re-adding the link to the register. --Charlesknight 11:03, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RfA thanks

[edit] Spamstar!

(Shouldn't that be anti-spamstar? :-) Thanks for the barnstar A.B.!

Hey -- I Photoshopped it myself. Feel free to change the title and pass it on (it's not a template). You earned it. Hopefully I got the licensing on the image I created correct -- otherwise I'll get a user page warning and you'll have a NonStar! --A. B. 19:15, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the spamstar! (It's even fun to say: SPAMSTAR!).

On the issue of licensing I think it might actually be problematic though: the original image contains cans of spam without them being the focus, while the spamstar uses only a can. I'm pretty sure that falls under "unlicensed derivative work" because the part being used is wholly of a copyrighted work, not just an original work that happens to have a minor element that is copyrighted (and this use doesn't fall under "fair use" doctrine). A solution would be, I think, to take those lovely and delicious-looking fanned-out slices of spam from the image and use them in the spamstar instead of the can. (And if you upload it over the current spamstar, it'll Just Work™.)

Thanks again! — Saxifrage ✎ 19:33, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Obviously, you need one

		The Spamstar of Glory
		Presented to User:A. B. for diligence in fighting spam on Wikipedia

Obviously, if you give them, you need to receive one, as you are one of the most active in WikiProject Spam. Cheers! -- ReyBrujo 19:25, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks -- by the way, let's hope I got the licensing right on my Photoshopped image or else we'll both have NonStars. --A. B. 19:29, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] thanks for the barnstar

he he he... spamstar of glory... is that a new barnstar? I don't think I'd ever seen it around. I also see that I arrived too late to give one back! Cheers, Pascal.Tesson 20:11, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Thats a great star and thanks for giving me one. It means a lot. — Moondyne 22:22, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

And thanks from me too. I appreciate it. I actually do not look for spam, but when it is put on one of my watched articles, I can't help but follow the trail. JonHarder 23:19, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Many thanks from me as well, that's very kind of you! Sorry to hear you're away from Wikipedia for a while - Wikipedia will surely be hurting until you return. Hope you come back refreshed and ready for action. Cheers --AbsolutDan ^(talk) 02:47, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RfA Oppose Changed to Support Thanks!

[edit] Mobile phone brain damage coverup

Regarding your reverting of sourced material. And then claiming it to be ussual claim.

I have now added source, which is from faily express UK, written by kathy moran, and that is a reliable source. Editing with IP or not, in the future i will look to see if that fact, which is very important still stands there, and thank you for your concern of citing sources to the material in wiki. --213.113.243.140 16:57, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My RfA

Hi A.B. I wanted to thank you with flowers (well, flower) taking the time to participate in my RfA, which was successful. I'm very grateful for your kind words in support, and especially for your insightful comment in response to the opposes on ethical grounds. I truly appreciate that. I assure you I'll continue to serve the goals of the project to the best of my ability - irrespective of my personal opinion - and strive to use the tools wisely and fairly. Please do let me know if I can be of assistance and especially if you spot me making an error in future. Many thanks once again and I look forward to working with you on your return for your Wikibreak. Yours, Rockpocket 08:33, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RfA thanks!

My RfA done I hope to wield my mop well (Her name is Vera) I appreciate The support you have shown me (I hope I don't suck) Anyway, I just wanted to drop you a line (damn, haikus are hard)

EVula // talk // ☯ // 17:08, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for the email

Noted and actioned! Cheers. — Moondyne 00:23, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Appalachia

Glad to hear you've been working on the Appalachia page! It's one I've long wanted to see improved, but felt it needed more than just copyediting but some larger structural reworking; thus I never got around to doing anything with it myself. Plus it is a large and sometimes complex topic, and I don't quite feel I understand the region well enough, though I'm getting a better handle on its geography and early history at least. I haven't looked at your edits closely yet, but will when I get the time, and perhaps try my hand at improving the page too. Just wanted to first say thanks for working on it! Pfly 05:13, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks -- I was happy to finally get (some) time to work on this. I'm always a bit shy about wholesale changes in an article, so I appreciate your looking at it when you get the chance.

Appalachia's about a lot more than coal, so I was sorry to only get as far as a paragraph about coal, then have to put aside more work. Feel free to take on timber, paper, manufacturing or especially tourism and real estate development. Also, while an earlier editor criticized the Appalachian Regional Commission for over-reliance on infrastructure investments, the fact is decent highway access has been an economic godsend to hundreds of formerly isolated communities, so transportation should get an important mention -- at least as big as the paragraph on coal. --A. B. 05:36, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Harry M. Caudill/Appalachian Regional Commission

Hi A.B. You wrote: "With the Caudill article, I was concerned about NPOV and general structure -- I just haven't seen amazon-style discussions in other authors' articles. Maybe the WikiProject Books folks might have some ideas on this -- I left a note there."

In the Harry M. Caudill article, I had made a "discussion" section, not as a discussion between editors, but trying to move material I had not written into a new section -- the material did not have its own section and was floating around external links. So it really isn't necessary, unless cited by the original contributor. Thanks. Best. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 18:24, 15 November 2006 (UTC) (talk)

As far as I can tell, this material was added by User:68.0.240.15 in the revision to the article on Harry M. Caudill: Revision as of 17:46, 15 November 2005. Agreed that it's a bit suspicious and uncited. It should be left out for now. Best. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 18:37, 15 November 2006 (UTC) (talk)

Thanks for the explanations. Somehow I incorrectly thought these things were your idea -- they just seemed so out of character for your typical, very encyclopedic work that I was confused.

Also, while we're on an Appalachian riff, can you take a look at the Appalachia article? I made some major changes to clean up longstanding POV issues; I'm always a bit concerned when I go off and make big changes to big articles, so some peer review would be useful. Also the economy section needs further expansion -- I only got as far as cranking out one paragraph about coal after about a lot of research (on top of some pre-existing knowledge of coal mining in Appalachia). --A. B. 18:55, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi A.B. Thanks for your kind response. We've got that bit sorted out now with the Caudill article. A first glance at the Appalachia article shows it reads better. Will have a more serious look later. Hmm. Caudill's book has a section on coal mining in the Cumberlands. Best Wishes and thanks. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 20:00, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disagreements can be good.

Without disagreement, it's often difficult to critically analyze anything, especially in an atmosphere where groupthinkconsensus is the highest goal. I certainly bear no one any malice. Your anti-vandalism messages page is far funnier than I am, and I may try to think up a box or two. Happy editing, --Elaragirl ||||||^Talk|Count 00:17, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I just learned that according to Wikipedia Review, I'm not very funny at all -- and a "rogue" editor to boot! I kind of like the rogue editor part. --A. B. 02:19, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RFA Thanks

Thanks!
Thanks for your input on my (nearly recent) Request for adminship, which regretfully achived no consensus, with votes of 68/28/2. I am grateful for the input received, both positive and in opposition, and I'd like to thank you for your participation.
Georgewilliamherbert 05:32, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] SPAM?

What do you consider spam? I think those links in LAN gaming center are informative, also dmoz is completely unreliable. Freakdomination 04:51, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

You’ve been told multiple times by multiple people that your link additions are inappropriate. Furthermore, you’ve taken to vandalizing articles.

Look at Wikipedia:External links -- this contains Wikipedia's rules. Follow them.

This whole issue has been thoroughly gone over already:

• Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Spam
• Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive146#Spam socks
• Talk:LAN gaming center
• User talk:Freakdomination

as for your vandalism several hours ago, refer to:

• Wikipedia:Do not disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point
• Wikipedia:Vandalism

Cheers, --A. B. 06:56, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Appalachian Mountains

A.B.: Since I agree with your observations that "content contributors are the most valuable members" of Wikipedia and we should take pains to help newcomers who are trying to submit content, I wanted to make you aware that an addition by 74.106.186.175 that you reverted may have been legitimate, even though it was only supported by a link to a spamdexing/Adsense site. Please see my discussion on the Appalachain Mountains Talk Page. Tlmclain | Talk 18:50, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for researching this!

For more information on 74.106.186.175, see a discussion of his contributions at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Spam#Busy guy with a passionate interest in medicine and science. He's followed a trajectory very similar to that described by "bill perry" in a comment responding to "Revenue Girl's" blog article, "Wikipedia Links: How to Get Them and How to Keep Them":

"One idea I’ve had, that I’ve yet to try, is to remove all stuff like adsense ads during the time you are trying ot get the link to stay. I use wordpress, so whenever I want to temp disable adsense, I actually put it in a PHP wrapper in my template files, then comment it out with PHP comments. This prevents the ads from serving, but also removes all of the adsense code itself from the source, should the moderators look at that."

Based on our research, this is not the same spammer but he is doing a very good job (better than "bill perry") of getting links into Wikipedia under the radar screen, usually as harder-to-spot footnotes rather than more obvious external links. He's also using other IP addresses, which some of us are still trying to figure out. The specific pages he links to on his "scraper sites" may have no ads, but the other pages may be mostly ads with just a little article text (possibly copyright violations of others' work). He's also doing a good job of search engine postioning. He's registered at least 13 additional domains and built more scraper sites which he's probably holding back in order to establish "Google trust", so I expect more spam. He may possibly be using open proxies to do all this, since that IP address is in Canada, but he's apparently based in Iowa. This has been going on for quite a while, but we only just learned about it in the last 24 hours. I haven't even had time to revert and warn (my day job interferes) --A. B. 21:10, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

If you step through the contributions for the IP address above plus those for 74.106.179.56 (talk • contribs), then look at the linked-to pages, you'll see the pattern. Only Adsense sites owned by one person are getting linked to.--A. B. 21:26, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Aha - the plot thickens. It does appear that he may be promoting Adsense blogs instead of adding content it good faith. I guess we'll see what happens next. Between my post on the Appalachain Mountains Talk Page and his talk page, he now knows how to post and document the content properly. If he continues to post links to blogs, then we'll know. Tlmclain | Talk 21:29, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

This guy is so slick, I'll bet he never uses that IP address again and moves on to another. Trust me, he understands Wikipedia, the rules, the processes, posting and documenting better than I ever will. The only way we even spotted him is that I (one of the few active WP:SPAM volunteers) am interested in Appalachian geology and was intrigued by his post, which seems to fly in the face of everything heretofore understood about the Appalachians. He's been slipping in spam for many weeks and not getting spotted at all. --A. B. 21:36, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

The theory intrigued me as well, which is why I did the research to try to find the underlying source. I had been aware of the presence of some of the same rock types that are found in the Applachians in Europe and even Africa, but this was a newer twist. I must confess that most of my knowledge of geology is quite stale (I refuse to calculate how many years it has been since I studied geology as an undergraduate). In that regard, since you profess at least a passing passion for Appalachian geology and demonstrate a certain level of expertise, I will leave it to you to determine whether this "revolutionary new theory" should be incorporated in Wikipedia articles. I am unable to tell whether it is a fringe idea or one that is gaining acceptance; however, it does appear that there may have been at least one presentation of papers related to this. Tlmclain | Talk 21:47, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Uhhh ... you flatter me. Interest yes, but certainly not "more" than a passing knowledge and an equally bygone undergaduate course or two myself. If there has been a peer-reviewed paper published, but that's all so far, then I would say the new theory should be mentioned, but perhaps given only one or two sentences until there is greater acceptance. I've situations sometimes occur, even with non-controversial stuff in Wikipedia, where one idea or one aspect of a topic gets higher coverage in an article not because of POV-pushing but because some editors are especially knowledgeable of or interested in a particular slice of a subject. I've seen the Submarine article veer from one interest to another -- women on subs, deep sea submersibles, pre-1900 subs, etc. Sometimes, you'd almost think the German U-boats were a blip in the history of submarines. So for that reason, I don't think this new theory should get a lot of space ... yet.

I've seen that you have unusually good editorial instincts and I know you'll figure it out even without a brand-new geology degree!

I'd like to research and write more articles, but I get to edit Wikipedia in little bursts. For now, I exercise my research skills mostly by trying to figure out spammers and their patterns. It's interesting. Many are dumb, but the one we found is very smooth. Google ranks Wikipedia highly, so our outward bound links are valuable and trusted. Some links left unreverted in Wikipedia for just a few weeks may be worth hundreds or thousands of dollars in increased site rankings and site traffic. The effect can linger additional weeks after reversion, too. This guy embeds his links in what appears to be useful text and adds just a link or two per week from any one address. He looks like an editor, not a spammer, until you look really closely at one edit's link, then start working backwards.

--A. B. 23:07, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Now who is flattering whom? It is quite an overstatement to say that I have "unusually good editorial instincts." In reality, my short Wikipedia experience has been more like what you described with respect to the Submarine article – veering from one topic of interest to another. Its amazing how you start one article, then notice related articles that need help or need to be created and, before you know it, find yourself miles away from where you started. In any event, I have enjoyed our dialogue. I may take the weekend off and return to editing next week. Who knows, I may try to get back in touch with my geology roots and edit the Appalachian geology entry to include the “new theory.” Tlmclain | Talk 23:59, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for your support!

A week ago I nominated myself, hoping to be able to help Wikipedia as an administrator as much as a WikiGnome. I am very glad many others shared my thoughts, including you. Thank you for your trust! Be sure I will use these tools to protect and prevent and not to harass or punish. Should you feel I am overreacting, pat me so that I can correct myself. I will continue my work trying to free Wikipedia from spammers and copyright violators as I did as a wikignome. If anything, I hope these tools will allow me to be slightly more effective when dealing with them, always trying to be as just and neutral as possible. Thanks again! ReyBrujo 20:48, 18 November 2006 (UTC)