Talk:Animated cartoon

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Contents 1 Merge with Animation 2 Ok, just what is this page about? 3 US-Centric? 4 Edited Intro 5 Former Redirect 6 Replace "Internet animation" with "Animutation"

[edit] Merge with Animation

Information included here is nothing different than Animation. KyuuA4 05:10, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ok, just what is this page about?

I'm getting more and more confused the more I look at it. Is this page even necessary? We already have an Traditional animation page. Doesn't "animated cartoon" specifically mean "traditionally-animated cartoon"? That's what people who're changing my edits (not that I blame them) seem to be saying to me. I understand that that article is more technical in nature than this one, but I can't help but feel that maybe this article should be somehow merged with either the traditional animation article or the Animation article (which bears many similarities to this one, only is more broad in its topic because it talks about ALL animated films, not just traditionally-animated ones). Can anyone tell me why this article is needed as a separate entity from one of those two? If I don't get any good responses, I may think about starting a discussion to merge this article with one of those two (probably the Animation one), but I want to get a feel for why people think it deserves its own name first. Esn 08:37, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

I originally created this page because "animated cartoon" was a redirect that took you to the cartoon article, with just one paragraph about animation. Yes, this article could be merged into either animation or traditional animation, but, OTOH, those are somewhat different subjects. An animated cartoon really is a short, hand-drawn (maybe also using computers) motion picture for the movie, TV or computer screen. Feature animation really doesn't belong here, as the opening paragraph in that section in fact implies, and belongs more naturally in the traditional animation article. The field of animation is so large and multi-faceted that everything cannot be crammed into one article... --Janke | Talk 16:28, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Alright, you have a point - I think I do see the need for this article now. In that case, though, it should be made abundantly clear that the topic of this article is NOT animation as a whole, but animated cartoons specifically - "short, hand-drawn (maybe also using computers) movies for the cinema, TV or computer screen" (sorry, changed your definition there slightly ;). From looking at the "history" section, you'd think that this was an article about the entire field of animation, and this is made even worse by the fact that many who come across this page may not realize that it is not. I think we should clean up the history section and make it focus on the development of the cartoon specifically, not of animation in general. They are related, but they are certainly not synonymous. Esn 06:25, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I've changed the opening paragraph... Esn 06:50, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

This article is not needed. If anything, it is used to separate "animated cartoons" from "anime". Discerning such a difference is obsolete. KyuuA4 05:11, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] US-Centric?

I'm just wondering - should any attempts be made to make this article less US-centric? Other countries have quite a rich history of animation as well, but if we include all of it it's certainly not going to be as nice and neat as it is now. Oh, and also - what does cartoon mean exactly? I'm assuming that it doesn't include all types of animation, correct? So which ones DOES it include? I may have made a mistake by adding information about types of animation which are not labelled "cartoons" - I'm just not sure. Esn 02:20, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

• "Cartoon" means that it is hand-drawn, so most 3D stuff, as well as clay, puppet, cut-out, are not animated cartoons. Regarding US-centricity, yes, good examples from all over the world are welcome. I'd hate to see theis article becoming a long, long list. History of animation would be a better place, since it is basically a list, and in fact, there's a lot of non-US stuff there, already. --Janke | Talk 06:43, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
• The only art form separated from cartoon is the Japanese type. See Anime. From a logic standpoint, that is not logical. Japanese animation uses the same principles. As things currently stand, there is a clear separation between Japanese animation and all other forms of animation whose definitions are upheld by the fanbases. KyuuA4 06:03, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Ok, so should there be so much info about 3D stuff in this article, as there currently is? Also, what do you mean when you say that "most" 3D stuff is not considered "cartoonish" - some of it is? Esn 07:13, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
  • One more thing: since the article states that the name "cartoon" implies a short film and is thus not applied to feature films, should there be a feature film section at all? This is all a bit confusing, made more so by the fact that I myself never use the word "cartoon" when referring to anything other than the 30-minute cartoon episodes on tv, but use "animated short" or "animated film". How do other people use the word? Esn 08:07, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Edited Intro

To reflect that NTSC and PAL shoot at different frame rates.

Reverted, gets too complicated to state all - 24, 25 and 30 fps. "frames" now links to frame (film) . --Janke | Talk 06:43, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Former Redirect

This page was formerly a redirect to Cartoon. However, that page is more like a disambiguation page for three topics; art, editorial cartoons, and animation. For this reason, I created this page. Some redundancy exists in articles such as animation and traditional animation, but I feel this is the right place for the history and development of the animated cartoon. Please feel free to edit and expand. --Janke | Talk 09:23:33, 2005-09-08 (UTC)

[edit] Replace "Internet animation" with "Animutation"

Internet animation isn't really a genre. Would you really put The Demented Cartoon Movie in the same genre as There she is!!? I put Animutation in as separate step. I'm not claiming that all Internet animations are Animutations. --Billpg 09:09, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

agreed, "Internet Cartoon" is just a medium. There are quite a few genres that could be put into that section of the article, and im not sure how specific it needs to be. "Zany humor" is slightly more vague than "Animutation". Is Zany Humor a style of animation anyway? the list needs a major overhaul, methinks. -- jeffthejiff (talk) 12:02, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes, please expand as you see fit. I originally created the list off-the-cuff, that's why I put a section-stub tag on it. The intention is that the main genres of animation should be listed, but not of course every single little sub-genre. PS: If you find a better name for the zany Clampett/Avery genre of 1940s and 50s cartoons, let's discuss it here! --Janke | Talk 19:46, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

The article seems to be about the art of animation as well as actual cartoons. So i dunno, theres quite a lot that can be encompassed within the article. I'm not entirely sure what the focus is. The list though - should it be styles of animation in cartoons or genres of cartoons (like movie genres)? -- jeffthejiff (talk) 22:40, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Well, styles or genres, that's a matter of taste. My intention with the list was also to present a timeline of the artistic development of the animated cartoon, something that is missing in the other wiki artcles about animation. Feel free to change the section header to styles, if you think it's better. This is a fairly new article, so it will certainly develop much further in the future. --Janke | Talk 06:48, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

I dont think its better particularly, i was just wondering where the article is heading. But now that i look at other animation articles, there is quite a bit of stuff missing i think, although i'm not an expert in the field of animation. There is a lot of stuff that could be written here though; might i suggest WP:RFE or something? -- jeffthejiff (talk) 12:11, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Done - let's see how it develops... --Janke | Talk 19:16, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

When I have a chance, I can put in something about Rotoscope. I'm thinking it should be in here as a style. --Happylobster 21:15, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

• Well, rotoscoping is more a technique than a style - rotoscoping can be used to create animation in many styles. But if you're thinking about the particular style used in music videos, I've included that in the list. --Janke | Talk 10:03, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Nah, I'm going beyond A-Ha's Take on Me. Consider the work of Ralph Bakshi. I would agree it's a technique he uses. However, when you see rotoscoping in the original Lord of the Rings cartoon and most of his other movies, it's unmistakably Bakshi. That to me suggests a style. Do you agree? --Happylobster 15:47, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Well, rotoscoping can be used to create many different styles, Bakshi's was just one (and not too good, IMHO). But I think it's OK to mention rotoscoping as a technique to implement a style. But lest this list grows too long, I'd not make a separate entry about it. --Janke | Talk 10:48, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Point made. I'll probably leave it be. Thanks. --Happylobster 14:57, 21 November 2005 (UTC)