Talk:Bulletin board system

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1 BBS Wiki on WikiCities
2 History is Wrong
3 KOM-systems
4 BBS vs Internet forum
5 strange
6 Local phenomenon ?
7 8-bit era
8 I want a dial-up MO-DEM now..
9 Best computers for BBSing back in the day?
10 Removed comment from article
11 Contradiction about the 1st BBS
12 Confusing
13 Date of Snowstorm
14 contradictions
15 First BBS
16 External links
- 16.1 deleting for the sake of deleting

[edit] BBS Wiki on WikiCities

The gloves are off, now you can write BBS related articles without fear of being too specific or inappropriate for wikipedia at the BBS Wiki at wikicities! Celerityfm 03:04, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] History is Wrong

This history starts too late. The first BBS, ALOHA.net, was created at the University of Hawaii in 1972. See the article entitled "Can We Know Everything?" in the April 2006 issue of California, the University of California Alumni Association's monthly magazine. As a planning consultant working in Hawaii in the early 1980's, we used this BBS extensively to create projects. At that time it was very difficult for a Macintosh user to exchange files with PC users, but the BBS made it possible.

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[edit] KOM-systems

I think it would be nice if the article could cover the KOM-systems used in Scandinavia. These systems have an interface somewhat resembling a UNIX-shell, and integrate message boards with a chat-system similar to IRC. While not easy for beginners to use, such systems remain in use today and are actively developed while BBS:es in other parts of the world are declining.

Examples include: LysKOM, LuddKOM, HelsinkiKOM, SklaffKOM, Fabbes BBS and RydKOM.

Filur 13:51, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

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[edit] BBS vs Internet forum

This article seems to distinguish BBS from Internet forum but is it really so? See 2ch, for example. I would like to merge somehow this to Internet forum but the trouble is the article has a lot of historical parts, which are good. Any though? -- Taku

BBS is a really old concept. If I understand correctly, they weren't even connected to the internet proper. Rather, you dialed up an individual BBS with your modem. I think it's a very valuable distinction, definitely needing a seperate page.

By the way, is 2ch a real BBS? It looks like it actually isn't. It certainly isn't if it is actually web-based. Evercat 01:30, 30 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Yes, strictly speaking I think this article ought to cover only those with a command-line interface. I'm not familiar with 2ch but if it's web-based it probably belongs in a different article. - Hephaestos 16:19, 30 Sep 2003 (UTC)

In Japanese, BBS means "Internet forum", but I haven't seen the term used in this way outside of Japanese contexts. The dial-up definition is older and more standard in English so I would be inclined to prefer it. I've changed the article to have "(primarily in Japan)" in the sentence about Internet forums; if this isn't a Japan-specific usage feel free to fix it. DopefishJustin 05:43, Apr 9, 2004 (UTC)

See, the eariliest dial-in BBSes let users do the same sorts of things they would do with a regular physical bulletin board (e.g. posting messages for later users to read.) The name stuck, even as a wide array of new features were introduced to such systems (e.g. file transfers, door games, access to inter-BBS e-mail and discussion networks) meaning that the original metaphor didn't work so well any more. From there, the name quickly came to apply to any sort of computer system you would dial into with a modem and use interactively with a terminal (or terminal emulator). In the mid-1990's, as web forums begin to reach a wide audience in North America, I began to hear such forums referred to as BBSes, primarily by people who were not familiar with the interactive terminal dial-in system meaing that "BBS" had acquired, but who meant to make an analogy with physical bulletin boards. So, would this be considered a new separate meaning of the term? Or just an extension of the same meaning? --rakslice 08:40, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] strange

here in this article i saw smth...

though it's large, i don't think those who don't use Chinese can understand its content.

Flora 05:16, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I worked for the company that made MBBS (aka The Major BBS) and I would say that about 75% of the customers ran commercial porn BBSs, so I would take issue with the statement that BBS's were usually run by hobbiests.

I think commercial BBSes like MBBS probably had a higher percentage of porn customers, but there were many hobbyists running Telegard, Renegade, etc. Maybe the article shouldn't use the term "most," because it's true that porn and other pay BBSes were a big chunk of the BBS market. Rhobite 16:27, Jul 22, 2004 (UTC)

There where many more hobbyist running mail, doors and files then there where pay sites. MBBS was a drop in the bucket to all BBS software that was on scene in the 80's and 90's. --Buster 17:01, Jul 22, 2004 (UTC)

I don't know if I agree with you. I remember a LOT of PCBoard and Citadel BBSs that had pay areas and porn too. I called a lot of pirate boards myself. I don't know if you can say that hobbyist boards outnumbered other boards by far. Rhobite 17:14, Jul 22, 2004 (UTC)

I will have to find an old BBS List and scan it in. I'm talking numbers like 1 in 10 might have been a paysite. Of course, almost all of them solicited for donations. Brings back a lot good memorys. --Buster 18:08, Jul 22, 2004 (UTC)

I'm sure a lot of national, commercial BBSs were pay and contained porn and/or warez (which is probably why they appealed to a national audience), but nearly all of the local BBSs I called back in the day were free, hobbiest boards. I think the 1 in 10 statistic mentioned by Buster might be accurate for my area too, and of the locals that were pay, most also had free content for non-subscribers. --Dan Hendricks 03:28, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Check out [1], that may have what you're looking for. Yeah, it sure does bring back memories. Rhobite 18:25, Jul 22, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Local phenomenon ?

The BBS was also a local phenomenon, as one had to dial into a BBS with a phone line and would have to pay long distance charges for a BBS out of the local area. Thus, many of a BBS's users lived in the same area and it was common for a BBS to hold a BBS Meet, where all of the users would gather and meet face to face.

Someone should edit this text. Free local rates is/

BBS was often but not only a local phenomenon. BBS was a national and international phenomenon for those with avid interest combined with clever telephony skills or petty cash. BBS enthusiasts accessed files from and chatted with people from national areas in several ways: he or she payed long-distance fees to access a national BBS, grabbed files (and possibly talked on the chat forum), hosted the files for local diallers; he or she phreaked free calls instead of payed for long-distance, and then followed the above procedure; he or she gained access to to PCs hosted in perimeter municaplities zones that had cross-over local boundaries. The first two procedures introduced international material and individuals to the US BBS scence. The latter may have been orchestrated efforts at publishing files within a greater BBS network, but may have also been an unintentional consequence of cross-over local telephone boundaries. BBS enthusiasts interested in the nationally sourced files and chats would then meet face to face in annual meetings. Some meetings frequented by US enthusiasts were held in Europe. Others not interested or unaware of the national component participated in a national and possibly international phenomenon by reading text files or using (executing) binary files of non-local origin. A BBS enthusiast reading a non-locally produced BBS 'zine would have participated in a national movement. The Internet, for example, is considered a international phenomenon by merit of reading or using material of international origin not by meeting international people.

[edit] 8-bit era

It would be a good idea to capture some of the history of BBSes before, oh, say, 1990 or so. CP/M was an important operating system in the early days and RCP/M ("Remote") was a fairly standardized way to implement a BBS, though this didn't include the message base interface. Quality of the software of early systems varied enormously - it was part of the home computer experience for many larval hackers to write some BASIC code that would answer the phone and let their buddies leave messages. There were many Apple IIs and Commodore-64s sitting in bedrooms waiting for phone calls in the mid-80's.

It's also important to stress that BBSes were not the same as Internet. Particulary well-organized BBS SYSOPs might be part of a "network" for exchange of data and messages, usually by making calls at night when long distance rates were lower. This worked a little more like the early days of UUCP than what we know as the Internet today. --Wtshymanski 14:38, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] I want a dial-up MO-DEM now..

Yeah man, that'd be so badass to dial into a BBS with a mo-dem.. that would rule..i'd love that.. so old school.. no school like old school. i wonder what the old bbs was like.. *sigh* --Cyberman 02:24, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It was glorious, Cyberman. To edit your own connection settings and hear that trilling, staticky connection sound was a pleasure worth waiting for, even at 300 baud. Depending on your connection speed, you might be able to read as fast or faster than the text as it appeared on the screen. Then you could converse in different "rooms" under whatever alias you chose. I was Radioactive Pillbug when I dialed into Bantoom at 2400 bps. I used a cracked terminal program which was supposed to cost a thousand bucks or something for banks and corporations. There were rooms for discussion of Edgar Rice Burroughs' works, NASCAR racing, and favorite lyrics, etc. There were doors for TradeWars 2002 and Voting. My cousins and their friends used the board, too. If I'm not mistaken, my aunt and uncle met on that board. We would have MUPTs, or "Modem Users' Pizza Things" where we'd meet somewhere and eat. We also had LazerTag on Monday nights. Glorious. --BJH 08:14 PDT, 3 Apr 2006

As BJH said, it was glorious. Unlike today's fast download speeds, there were no such words as 'gigabyte' or 'gigahertz', or 'DVD-ROM', or 'flatscreen'. The largest program *anyone* would want to download was a very conservative 4 or 5 megabytes, and *anything* with speech or any kind of video in it was a *big* thing. We used to measure speed in 'baud', with a 14400 baud modem [Anonymous edit: helloooo, 14.4 modems are 2400 baud] being top-of-the-line. It was, as I recall, the 'geek era', where anyone that owned a computer was a hopeless loser and a 'nerd' (which is a title I'm now proud to embrace as part of my computer heritage). I was seven when I saw my first computer, and the largest hard-disks that existed then were 25 and 50 megabytes in capacity, and it didn't seem we'd *ever* have a game big enough to totally fill one. Now...now we have games that would fill *dozens* of them.... DarkMasterBob 09:35, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

It was a far different animal from the internet. The emphasis was definitely on the local--I actually met my future wife at a BBS meet in 1994. BBSes provided news service, games, a community. Multi-line systems offered the first chat boards, and the ones without multi-lines... well, you spent a lot of time on redial. I don't regret the coming of the internet at all, but I did very much enjoy the BBS era. Make no mistake--it was the internet which ended it. Neopeius 13:37, 28 July 2006 (UTC) http://www.uniecom.com/Products/index.htm

[edit] Best computers for BBSing back in the day?

What was the best home computer to connect to a BBS in 1978 to 1985 and why? What was the best to do it from 1985 to 1995 and why? This would be interesting points to cover in this article.

i disagree. It wasnt about 'the best' computer to connect to a bbs...that viewpoint it pointless, what's important is that bbsing was an import part of the past and the present [influence], socially and technologically.

--Mroblivious1bmf 05:36, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

The viewpoint isn't pointless, but the 'best computer' is really not a topic that can be covered adequately here; everyone has their own opinion on 'The Best', and such a discussion would be incredibly POV. Although, I do agree that something regarding the advancement of modem technology, if it's not already in the article, would be appropriate to include. DarkMasterBob 09:41, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

There really wasn't 'best' for connecting to BBSes. You could do just fine with pretty much any 8-bit computer. A dumb terminal would do. An 80-column screen often made it easier.--RLent 20:44, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removed comment from article

I just removed the following text (apparantly a comment about the article) from the article itself. It is not my own comment. Goingin 09:20, 29 March 2006 (UTC) Quote This history starts too late. The first BBS, ALOHA.net, was created at the University of Hawaii in 1972. See the article entitled "Can We Know Everything?" in the April 2006 issue of California, the University of California Alumni Association's monthly magazine. As a planning consultant working in Hawaii in the early 1980's, we used this BBS extensively to create projects. At that time it was very difficult for a Macintosh user to exchange files with PC users, but the BBS made it possible. Unquote http://www.uniecom.com/Products/index.htm

[edit] Contradiction about the 1st BBS

The article states the following:

Snowed in during The Great Chicago Snowstorm of 1978, Ward Christensen began preliminary work on what would eventually become the first BBS to exist. The first BBS, CBBS, went online on February 16, 1978 in Chicago, Illinois.^{[citation needed]}

An earlier Community Memory bulletin board started in 1972 in Berkeley, California, using hardwired terminals located in neighborhoods.

If CBBS was the first bulletin board system, it doesn't make sense to say that Community Memory BBS was an earlier version of a BBS. We need some clarification here. -- backburner001 15:04, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, the Community Memory article says it was the first, but the CBBS article says nothing but a date. This site, http://www.well.com/~szpak/cm/, has this to say: "Community Memory was the world's first public computerized bulletin board system." along with saying it was started in 1972, but I have been unable so far to find any other resources. It is my position that that section should be edited to say:

The first bulletin board system was Community Memory, started in 1972 in Berkeley, California, using hardwired terminals located in neighborhoods.

Snowed in during The Great Chicago Snowstorm of 1978, Ward Christensen began preliminary work on his Computerized Bulletin Board System, or CBBS. CBBS went online on February 16, 1978 in Chicago, Illinois.^{[citation needed]}

That will obviously need some work, but I think it's an improvement. Zuwiki 21:17, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Other editors have obviously been making an attempt to clarify which was the first BBS, but the article still appears to contradict itself on the issue. A citation was added with regard to CBBS, which is good. However, another editor identified the Community Memory BBS as a BBS that pre-dates CBBS "in the loose sense of the word" as currently written. We still need clarification on what defines the first BBS and what the "loose sense" of the word really means/how it impacts the discussion of which BBS was the first to exist. Let's continue to clarify this claim. -- backburner001 15:31, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

As an old "SysOp", Circa 1987, to me a BBS implies dial-up public access - IE: anyone could could dial in and connect from their home computer. In the true sense of a "Bulletin Board", it was not locked in someone's basement, it was publicly accessable. Thus, the text might read:

A notable precursor to the public bulletin board system was Community Memory, started in 1972 in Berkeley, California, using hardwired terminals located in neighborhoods.

I think this moves in the right direction. I've edited the current article to include this proposed text. I agree that we should continue to add info on the dial-up component of the first BBSs. The reference to Christensen provided from this link should also probably be written back into the article. -- backburner001 15:04, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

http://www.uniecom.com/Products/index.htm

[edit] Confusing

I just want to say that after reading this article, I am in no means closer to knowing what BBS is.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.30.204.75 (talk • contribs) .

THe main points are stated in the article, but I'll give you the 'nutshell' version: a Bulletin Board System was a computer system designated (via the use of special software) as a 'message board/download center/social hub', and equipped with a device called a 'modem' (modulator/demodulator) that allowed a computer likewise equipped with a modem to 'dial up' and connect to the BBS over analog phone line. For various reasons, a BBS was much slower than today's broadband systems (the modem could only send data as fast as the phone line could transmit), but broadband connections were still another 20 years down the road (for reference, I saw my first dial-up modem when I was seven years old; I'm now 24 and dial-up has only recently started to become truly 'outdated'). DarkMasterBob 09:51, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Date of Snowstorm

There was a blizzard in Chicago in January of 1979, that came to be known as the Blizzard of '79. I personally don't recall a great Snowstorm in 1978. Does anyone?

To Clarify the Confusing

In simple terms a "BBS" was someone's personal computer,they would make it available to other people via the phone line (a mini internet you might say). They would advertise their BBS in the newspaper, some were free some would charge, you would dial in with a very slow modem and connect to their computer, download hardware drivers, pictures, shareware games and programs. Some also had chat rooms very much like today.

[edit] contradictions

"oh, cbbs WAS the first bbs, this is common knowledge."

Okay.. so now it says the entry contradicts itself.. i google "first bbs".. and others... And i see strong support for community knowledge AND CBBS being the first bbs [archive.org entry]

let's compromise and say that community bbs was the first bbs in the loose sense of the word (network of computers where people would post msgs], cbbs was the first implimented, structured bbs that is the common, widespread definition of the bbs as we know it.. past+present.

really, this is an underground subculture of a sort, it isn't like most subjects where you can actually look it up in a text book. Mroblivious1bmf 19:31, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

- oblivious

216.58.18.149 put the below in the article (I moved it in here). Haakon 23:17, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

About the contradiction- CBBS was the first bulletin board BBS was the bulletin board in its beta version (they called it a Bulletin Board System But that sounded too generic so CBBS took its place) because BBS was not released before CBBS was, CBBS was counted to be the first because of the fact that people at that time had no idea BBS existed therefore it was recorded that CBBS was the first bulletin board but in reality it is not.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.58.18.149 (talk • contribs) .

[edit] First BBS

Someone should include some information on the first BBS. The history of the computer based Bulletin Board System can be traced back to Chicago, IL in 1978 to Ward Christensen, who wrote the first BBS system —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 167.102.133.216 (talk • contribs) .

?? This is already in the article... --ozzmosis 14:16, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

It seems to me that the main difference between Cbbs, and Community Memmory( if i'm reading this page correctly) is that Community Memmory was a fixed number of terminals connected together, and that Cbbs was the first BBS to be dialed into by anyone. This may be incorrect, but thats what I got from the information. -Phillip p

[edit] External links

if anybody would like to discuss the recent changes regarding external links, please visit my talk page. i personally think they are useful for researchers, and whether some vague remark about the very external links being notable via site hits is actually a good argument... i disagree. -d Darren palmer 18:42, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I've commented on your talk page, but I feel the discussion would be more fruitful here with the input of more editors. What is your rationale for including these links, because I am am unconvinced that a MySpace site is "useful for researchers." Leuko 19:05, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] deleting for the sake of deleting

well, first, i don't think you can actually remove these links without checking them out.. you obviously havent.
in addition, i think you are just making a judgement on the surface about the article.
regarding your example, the myspace site is a source of new bbs news and links to various softwares.
even though you have no interest in this subject [aside from editing wikipedia], please take into consideration that several people who visit this article will benefit from its content.
thank you, Darren palmer 21:24, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I did check out all the sites before I removed them, and I was unimpressed with their usefulness to readers of an encyclopedia. The MySpace site is exactly that - a MySpace site of questionable importance. WP:EL clearly states that links to MySpace sites should be avoided, unless necessitated by the article (i.e. the article is about MySpace). WP is not a web directory - the number of WP:EL should be kept to a minimum, and include only non-commercial links that are of historical importance and are WP:RS. How is a downloadable file repository any of these things? Finally, please refrain from making assumptions of of my actions/motives/thoughts, and comment on the content, not the contributor. Leuko 21:46, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

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