Talk:Dazzler

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Dazzler article.
Please sign and date your posts using four tildes (~~~~). New discussion topics go at the bottom of the page; click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Frequently asked questions. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.	Talk page guidelines Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Don't bite the newcomers!

	This article is in the scope of WikiProject Comics, a collaborative effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to comics on Wikipedia. Get involved! Edit the article attached to this page or discuss it at the project talk page. Help with current tasks, or visit the notice board.
???	This article has no rating on the quality scale. Please rate the article and provide comments here.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the Project's importance scale.

Contents 1 Front Image 2 Dazzler (series) 3 Covers 4 Merge 4.1 Survey 4.2 Discussion 5 Relatives

[edit] Front Image

Since there is now an edit war over the image, there needs to be a solved dispute. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, collecting information on characters' past and present histories. The profile image for the character should be the most recognizable and unique to the character, so that it is an identifiable reference point for viewers.

The new image continually being posted by User:DrBat is not consistent with this view. A foray to any site, summary, or article on recent comics or the New Excalibur series will demonstrate this appearance, but it is not indicative of the character's history. The old image should be kept; the new image either should be in-boxed toward the bottom in Character History or left out altogether. It is not even established yet! Novaya havoc 22:08, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

This is being discussed in the WikiComics section, which you already know as you posted there before posting here.

The main picture should represent the character as they are currently represented. Dazzler has hardly worn the Disco costume since she dropped it in Dazzler #38, and has only worn it a few times since, during performances and not when she is in battle. It has shown how her character has changed so much since we first saw her.--DrBat 22:17, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

"Otherwise, don't mess with the 20+ year old (and still going) image." It's not still going! She dropped it a long time ago, and rarely wears it anymore!!!--DrBat 22:19, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

No, the image continally occurrs in promotional material issued by Marvel Comics: collectibles, trading cards, encyclopedias, handbooks, and so on. It is the definitive Dazzler image and costume. And there is no reference on Project: WikiComics stating that characters are to be depicted as they are currently in comics -- I looked to avoid such an argument (if it were a widely accepted rule, I would concede, but several articles use images of characters in familiar/popular appearances and not according to current styles).

The image was not ditched by Dazzler #38. Chris Claremont may not employ it in his rendition of Dazzler, but the image is still predominant outside of 1985 and prior, contrary to your opinion. Downsize and box the new image in her character history profile, where it belongs. I'll do it for you if you'd like. Novaya havoc 22:33, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

When has she really worn the outfit in the actual comics universe, not some unrelated merchandising? And yes, Dazzler did change her outfit to a more practical one in #38.

And I'd like to see an example of an SHB box that reflects a superhero wearing an outfit he or she hasn't really worn in years. --DrBat 22:39, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

By your logic, show me where Dazzler has worn this "new" image outside of some preview and promo solicits? Yes, I know what happened in Issue #38, thank you. But the image has been consistently revived for marketing, tie-ins, and other information -- including two "revival" pieces: Deadpool #67 and X-Men Unlimited #33. The recent Marvel Handbook: Women of Marvel Comics depicts Dazzler on the cover -- in classic silver. Her mid-90s action figure: classic silver. Diamond select bust: classic silver (with the blue one being the variant). Marvel Overpower: classic silver. Need I continue? Show me where this -- or ANY -- of Dazzler's 1990 character redesigns have taken hold. They haven't. If you want to have X-Men bios that deal exclusively with latest appearances, start your own fansite. For the love of Pete: it's an encyclopedia entry.

Example of a character bio using CLASSIC images for the character? Jean Grey. I don't see her in New X-Men, Eve of Destruction, or any other character redigns that have befallen the character in recent years. Novaya havoc 22:49, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Both of your examples (DP, Unlimited), was her PERFORMING. She has rarely worn the costume outside of performing, and she wears the other outfits when battling. And concerning Phoenix; she wore that outfit recently in Endsong. She also wore it in New X-Men #150, and Here Comes Tomorrow. When she had the leather jacket, the article reflected that.

By your logic, will you be ok when Dazzler does wear the outfit in NXC (which she most certainly will).

And again, I am referring to inside the comics universe, not some out-of-continuity merchandising. --DrBat 22:56, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Stage outfit, superhero outfit -- what line are you treading? Her "stage" persona is integral to the character. Wikipedia articles do not exist as a continuity reference for characters, DrBat. It is not a blow-by-blow, issue-by-issue summary; pages like that would be titanic. The character's appearance in other media and the general perception definitely affect the article. Continutity does not even comprise one half of the entry, so the argument that the Wiki entries are limited by current continuity (or continutity at all) is bogus. Either the article is about Dazzler as a whole, or it is simply a showcase of what she is to the current reader. This being an encyclopediac entry would lead to the former. Novaya havoc 23:24, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

The point is, it isnt her real outfit anymore, and besides for a couple of apparances she doesn't wear it anymore.

Almost all comic characters contain their current outfit in the SHB box. Your Jean example doesn't count, as that Phoenix outfit is her current outfit. --DrBat 23:30, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

The point is, the silver image is the definitive Dazzler image and is consistently used and most accepted in fandom. And despite that you feel a sense of authority and self-righteousness over all SHB images (making them "most current") there is nothing in Wikiproject: Comics that demonstrates this is an overarching goal. Silver Dazzler is Dazzler and the main image should reflect such. Novaya havoc 23:35, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

And despite that you feel a sense of authority and self-righteousness over all SHB images (making them "most current") What are you talking about? I'm not the only one here who wants to have the SHB boxes having the current outfit, as opposed to some old, unused outfit. --DrBat 23:38, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Dazzler (series)

Ummm... WTH? Redundant/duplicate article, had a superTEAMbox for a solo character and, in the context of the above argument looks in danger of being a WP:POINT breach. This needs merged in here ASAP. - SoM 01:05, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Dude. One is about the character. One is about the series of the same name. They're two different articles highlighting different elements. I used SuperTeam box since there wasn't a template for generic comic series, though one was suggested in the talk page of Wikiproject: Comics.

I don't see why these two articles need to be merged. One explains a series; the other, the character. I felt that merging them would make the entire article too long.—preceding unsigned comment by Novaya havoc (talk • contribs)

• The merge is absolutely necessary because Dazzler (series) is completely redundant with the parent article. Merging the two won't bring this article even close to the 32k limit. -Sean Curtin 02:22, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Covers

Hi:

I don't want to add this without imput, but I believe Bill Sienkiewicz had a long streak as the cover artist for Dazzler in the early days. These were very striking covers from high talent. Looking back, I suspect that it may have been a choice to try to help establish the comic and character. Just my .02.

Yes, Sienkiewicz did do painted covers with issue #27 in an effort to help boost sales (he also did some assisting art in Dazzler #29, and also the cover for Dazzler #18). The embedded Dazzler: The Movie image is a Sienkiewicz piece.

I say add away under the Dazzler series bit.

69.222.154.10 00:41, 20 January 2006 (UTC) (Novaya Havoc)

[edit] Merge

Per the WP:COMIC talk page, Ultimate character entries should be merged into the character's main article.--Chris Griswold 03:29, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

• Merge--Chris Griswold 03:29, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
  
• Merge -- Ipstenu (talk|contribs) 15:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
• Merge Dr Archeville 15:15, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
• Merge Kusonaga 16:25, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
• Merge Markeer 16:00, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
• Merge T-Man 09:09, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Closed with CONSENSUS TO MERGE CovenantD 17:00, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

[edit] Relatives

Lois London is Dazzler's half-sister, and Nick Brown should be listed as her stepfather.