Talk:Guy Fawkes Night

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Contents 1 Happy Fifth 2 British Protectorates 3 Precursor to Guy Fawkes 4 Newfoundland Celebration 5 Dating use of Fireworks 6 Move requested 7 Celebration of several weeks 8 The rhyme 9 Canada? 10 USA?? 11 Waste of time 12 Harry Potter 13 Jack Presbyter 14 Vandalism? 15 Safety Concerns 16 Cut and paste removed 17 Everything gone? 18 Accurate title 19 ACT 20 Baked Potatoes

[edit] Happy Fifth

Time to remember the fifth of november!!!! yay!!!!! 69.68.191.155 21:52, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] British Protectorates

Changed "British Protectorates" New Zealand, South Africa, the province of Newfoundland and Labrador (Canada) to "British colonies"...etc., since the term protectorate was not a correct description of the former condition of these nations/provinces.

[edit] Precursor to Guy Fawkes

Bonfire Night didn't just spring into existence in 1605. It was a part of the Hallowe'en celebration that dates back to Celtic times. I don't have enough facts to justify this, except for some web pages that I don't entirely trust, so I will wait for more proof before doing any editing. --Heron 14:08, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Oh, go on. You could at least just state it, that'd be better than what's there currently, right?

"Some believe the nearness of the event to the pre-Christian festival of Samhain Eve and Halloween is significant, but it is generally agreed that this is a coincidence."

I was going to ask what the source was for this 'general agreement'. I remember reading that shortly after the discovery of the plot bonfires sprang up across England. Hard to believe everyone just thought it would be a nice idea!

BBC.co.uk makes reference to the festival's pagan overtones, and I'm sure we could find more evidence elsewhere, but I think we should get rid of the giant, unwieldy Graham Phillips quote. Most of it has little to do with the article and some Holy Blood, Holy Grail type book isn't the best historical source.

I agree. I am printing this entry for an English discussion class but the text on the precurser to Bonfire Night is obviously put in later and doesn't sit well with what comes before and answer. I am taking it out for my class. Can't it go at the end as an extra piece of interest? Tom Nickalls

[edit] Newfoundland Celebration

To the best of my knowledge, the Canadian province of Newfoundland also celebrates Guy Fawkes night (aka Bonfire Night)--the only place in North America to do so. Will find a scholarly citation before adding this to the article proper. --anonymous user, 28 June 2005.

I am from Newfoundland, and it is true we do celebrate Guy Fawkes night. Maybe a line about that should be mentioned in the article? --142.162.204.130 19:45, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Dating use of Fireworks

Currently in the main article: "In recent years it has also become the primary night for fireworks displays in Britain". Recent years? I can personally testify that's 50 years at least. Anybody know when Guy Fawkes Night also became Fireworks Night? --Stibbs 04Nov05

at christ church, oxford, there are drawings in both the buttery and the graduate common room which depict guy fawkes night in peckwater quad in the 1880s, complete with fireworks. Ptomng 11:26, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

I thought fireworks dated from ancient China. It is even possible that a form of firework, something like a small bomb that could be fired into the air, was used when Guy Fawkes was burned. pinster2001 @ 31/10/06

[edit] Move requested

An uncontroversial move, but I can't do it myself because that page has history. --Quuxplusone 01:45, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

• Support, just so people don't think that this is unsupported. :-) James F. (talk) 20:13, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

This article has been renamed after the result of a move request. Dragons flight 22:34, August 26, 2005 (UTC)

i am a recreation director in the Labrador portion of Newfoundsland, each year one of my bigger tasks is to organize a guy fawkes bonfire night...of course not many people know of the gunpowder conspiracy etc...but the bonfire with guy on the to is a huge tradition. we hand out wieners and marshmallows and apples for roasting and juice to drink. the event brings out young and old alike and is a part of our culture.

I am originally from Grand Bank, Newfoundland (Burin Peninsula) and we used to have a massive bonfire on the beach every 5 November for Guy Fawkes night (we usually just called it Bonfire night). There was marshmallows and wieners for roasting, as well has hot chocolate. The town's fire marshall stopped the celebrations for a number of years, but it has since resumed. In my father's home town (Harbour Mille - also on the Burin Peninsula), the kids would collect old barrels, dead spruce/fir limbs (called Fortune screachers) for weeks and light a number of fires so that the entire town would be as light as day. C. Dean Barnes, Montreal

[edit] Celebration of several weeks

Hello. The introduction says:

"although in recent years the celebration has spread out to encompass a period of several days or even weeks before or after the exact date."

Is it actually correct to say this? My impression, from New Zealand, is that people aren't always celebrating Guy Fawkes Night simply because they're letting off fireworks. It's more a matter having fireworks available, which they are at that time of year, and setting them off opportunistically. People do let fireworks off on alternative nights because of weather problems, occasionally because the 5th is inconvenient, or maybe just because they like blowing them up and can't be bothered waiting for the official night. As far as I can tell, though, November 5th is still the only time of year that's properly associated with Guy Fawkes celebrations. I've never heard of Guy Fawkes Week or Guy Fawkes Month. Izogi 04:16, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Definitely, Izogi - you've hit the nail on the head. In the UK, Diwali is also celebrated around this time, also using fireworks, so the fun lasts usually around three weeks or so. There have been kids letting off fireworks just under my flat window for about three hours solid now (and for the last five days or so), and it's still 9 days to the 5th. It's probably more accurate to say they're celebrating the availability of fireworks rather than Guy Fawkes' night :) Natgoo 19:42, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

On further reading, that whole section seems redundant. Unless someone is willing to provide a compelling argument for keeping it, I'll remove it. Natgoo 19:57, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

A late note, but it does stretch over a week at least. Many bonfires and public celebrations are held on the Friday or Saturday night closest to the 5th as it is not a public holiday.

[edit] The rhyme

Do we need it twice on the same page? Really? Ben-w 08:16, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Canada?

I'm from Canada, have lived in every part of it except Newfoundland and can report that it is not a holiday and not celebrated. Should also point out that the way the line reads ( ...South Africa Newfoundland, Canada) is a bit confusing since Newfoundland is a province of Canada. An analogy might be coming across a list like " New Zealand, Lancashire, South Africa, England" or "New Zealand,Wisconsin, South Africa, U.S.A";

(PRedfern writes:) The analogy is not quite correct since Newfoundland & Labrador did not join the Canadian Confederation until 1948. Until then Newfoundland was a separate colony/dominion within the British Empire. Until 1948 indeed, Newfoundland & Labrador was Britain's oldest N.American colony. After 1948, it was Canada's youngest province.

That history of independence (Newfoundland - Canada's Texas?!!) presumably would also explain why, if a tradition of celebrating Guy Fawkes/Bonfire night was established there, that tradition would not necessarily extend to any of the other Canadian provinces (Quebec especially!).

[edit] USA??

I am 76 years old, and have lived in New York, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Minnesota, California, and Washington. I have, or had, relatives living in South Carolina, Florida, Louisiana, Texas, Illinois, and Maryland. I have never heard of Guy Fawkes Night being celebrated anywhere in the USA. But I may be wrong. If no one can provide more information, I plan to correct the article. Too Old 16:14, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Checkout The Center For Fawkesian Pursuits

Thanks to Jooler, who inserted the above reference. I had already found out that, because of the English backgrounds of many of the early colonists, Guy Fawkes Night was widely celebrated in the colonial period. It also has been adopted in some areas as an excuse for a bonfire and a party. Never too old to learn. Too Old 18:24, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Too Old, I can confirm that it celebrated to a small degree in New Orleans, where it is referred to simply as "Guy Fawkes Day" and lasts for 24 hours from the stroke of midnight until it technically becomes the 6th the next day. It's worth adding, I think, but unfortunately it is impossible to source anything because revelers are notoriously secretive- Guy Fawkes day in New Orleans is seen as a day that nothing you do "counts" and in fact "never happened".

[edit] Waste of time

I spent some time removing the stale, clichéd American bollocks (proximity, primary night, blah blah) from an article on a British topic, but it's all back again. Another good example of what's wrong with Wikipedia -- its tendency to revert to the lowest common demoninator -- is this sentence:

"Some believe the proximity of the event to the pre-Christian festival of Samhain Eve and Halloween are notable, but it is generally agreed that this is a coincidence."

How many people have edited the article w/o spotting that the verb doesn't agree with its subject? And when someone finally corrects it, the mistake is back within the day. Hopfrog 12:55, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Hopfrog has inserted an all-too-common sample of British snobbery. (The Brits -- or at least their "nobility" -- seem to have invented snobbery.) I note above that I have recently learned that Guy Fawkes Night was celebrated during the American colonial period, and is, in fact, also part of American tradition, partly because of predjudice against [Irish] Catholics in the USA in times gone by. As for grammatical errors (note the disparity between the singular "it's" and the plural antecedant "bollocks" above) such persnickety pettifoggery is simply rude (another British specialty). Too Old 19:03, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Bollocks, (in the context of nonsense rather than testicles), like like money and news is singular, when the plural is required, one might same something like "what a load of bollocks" Jooler 19:54, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Point taken, Jooler. Too Old 22:14, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Harry Potter

Is there correlation between Dumbledore’s phoenix Fawkes and Guy Fawkes? My reasoning is that J. K. Rowling is from England and must know about the fifth of November, and since the man tried to set fire – or destroy – the parliament, so I though, knowing about that story, that it would make a nice name for the phoenix. (Speculation here, not sure of it all, and my memory is hazy). Someone else sees something here? mandragorae 20:49, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

J. K. Rowling definitely knows about Bonfire Night, since she mentions it in the first chapter of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone. Seems pretty clear to me that the phoenix was named after Guy Fawkes. Pruneau 16:42, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jack Presbyter

It seems like the Tory response to the Guy Fawkes effigy - Jack Presbyter - should be included in the article. I'm not sure where, though.

[edit] Vandalism?

"For centuries, live cats were tied up and placed in the interiors of the effigies to make desirable sound effects as they burned. The practice of including cats is long discontinued." That was added on 22 Jan 06 by 207.200.116.133. Checking edits by that IP address a day either side of that date show a mixture of good edits and clear vandalism. So I'm deleting it until somebody produces evidence. --Farry 20:11, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I think I've heard that in a lecture but I don't have a source. --Jordansc 04:31, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Safety Concerns

The section on Safety concerns is presumably specific to the United Kingdom. However, this is not explicitly stated. While I agree that there are probably common concerns in all the places that celebrate with fireworks, the section is more about one country's reaction to those concerns. In New Zealand, one issue is that of personal injury from irresponsible use, while another issues is the threat to public safety as a result of either accident or abuse causing wildfires and property damage. Here the reaction has been the banning of the sale of sky-rockets and crackers, along with a call for the prohibition of all fireworks for personal use. I understand that the similar concerns lead to the banning of fireworks in the state of Victoria, in Australia, 20 years ago, but as ACT and Northern Territory still celebrate, interstate fireworks smuggling is a concern there. I think the Safety concerns section needs clarification as it is currently misleading. There possibly also needs to be a section about legislative controls that covers what may be sold in which countries and when fireworks may be used. -- Cameron Dewe 21:06, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Fireworks only used in the weeks before since 2000? Do we have a source for this? Secretlondon 21:41, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cut and paste removed

I've taken out the following passage which somebody has just lifted from the "TVNZ" website:

"On the 29th of October 2006, a week before Guy Fawkes Night and a few days after fireworks had been put on sale in New Zealand, the NZ Fire Service had already had enough. Fire stations across the North Island have been inundated with calls resulting from the reckless use of pyrotechnics. It seems fireworks lovers around the wider Auckland region have had the greatest number of mishaps. Fire Service spokesman Steve Smith says there were two hours of non-stop fireworks call-outs between 9pm and 11pm on Saturday night. Fire stations servicing the Central North Island also reported dangerous use of fireworks, including several skips and letterboxes being set alight. The Fire Service wants fieworks to be banned."

It also seems to adopt the tone of somebody with an axe to grind and lacks any kind of balance.

[edit] Everything gone?

Where has everything gone. There is no information on this article? pinster2001 @ 30/10/06

[edit] Accurate title

I am doubtful that we have the best title for this article. I have never heard this called 'Guy Fawkes Night' or indeed 'Fireworks Night'. Having lived in a number of places across the UK I have almost always heard this called 'Bonfire Night', except in northern England where it can be referred to as 'Plot Night'. What do others think (especially those from CA, Au & NZ)?

- I agree, never heard of it being referred to as 'Guy Fawkes Night' always 'Bonfire Night' or 'Bommy Night' Boothuk 12:10, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

- In Scotland its widely known as Guy Fawkes Night, so the title is just right as far as we are concerned Scancoaches 12:15 6 November 2006 (UTC)

- In my experience "bonfire night" is more common, but "Guy Fawkes Night" does not sound particularly odd, so I see no real need for change. Alihaig 14:30, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ACT

There is a link when talking about the banning of fireworks in Australia to "ACT" but this is just a huge disambiguation page, could someone clear up the link so it points to the correct article? Alihaig 14:30, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Baked Potatoes

Is it really nessecary to mention baked potatoes? They are not exclusive to bonfire night and are only provided because they are easy to cook outside and are good warming food on a cold night. They have the same significance as burgers or sausages which are not mentioned here. Alihaig 14:30, 6 November 2006 (UTC)