Talk:Howard Kaloogian

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article must adhere to the policy on biographies of living persons. Controversial material of any kind that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libelous. If such material is repeatedly inserted or there are other concerns relative to this policy, report it on the living persons biographies noticeboard.

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.	Biography Portal
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the Project's quality scale. Please rate the article and then leave a short summary here to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article. [FAQ]
	This article is supported by the Politics and government work group.

This article is part of WikiProject California, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to California on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the project page to join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.

Contents 1 Move America Forward 2 Recall Davis and howardisaliar.com 3 Kaloogian website uses fake photo of Iraq? 3.1 Scandal? 4 Media appearance 5 Annoying vandal alert 6 Upper floor? 7 Corrected Inaccuracies 8 Erroneous Characterization of Morrow Testimonial 9 Continued smearing of political opponents 10 False endorsement by the California Pro-Life Council 11 References

[edit] Move America Forward

I notice Howard Kaloogian is the currently listed registrant of http://www.moveamericaforward.org/ . This is a website that used to describe itself as non-partisan, but was traced to Russo March & Rogers, a well known GOP PR firm. They used to be the registrant, but this was changed within a day or so of the publication of that fact.

Anyone know anything about Kaloogian's connections with RM+R or the site? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tualha (talk • contribs) .

[edit] Recall Davis and howardisaliar.com

Removed degrading comments about his participation in the Recall Davis movement. Also, citation is needed in a lot of places. Folks, Wikipedia is not meant for sliming opponents, but for providing legitimate information.

Signed- Chris

On the other hand, balance is appropriate when placed in an NPOV way, and the links do show the subject information on the site. The site is not going into his private life, nor is wikipedia making any judgements as to whether "howardisaliar.com" is correct. Indeed, howardisaliar.com is not a crank site because it was written up in both the Sacrameno Bee [1] and San Francisco Chronicle [2]. However, it does show that there are people against him. We have anti sites all the time. Just look at the link list for David Dreier and all the controversies he has endured. I am adding the statement back in. Calwatch 04:25, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kaloogian website uses fake photo of Iraq?

this looks like a big scandal, but is it true? I can't get to kaloogian's website ever since this information below was released:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x776401#

It's certainly true that he posted that photo with that caption. It was observed by many people, including myself. It's also readily available (at this time) in google's cache -- try "dowtown baghdad". -- Jibal 17:22, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Big deal. a politician lied. get over it :) Palx 10:59, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Shall we get over the whole encyclopedia project? I don't understand the point of your comment. Let's stick to talk directed at improving the page -- that's what this discussion page is for.-- Jibal

Palx, I understand your sentiment... but that attitude won't do anything to change the situation. Pols do that kind of stuff because they can get away with it. It's the duty of the citizen to keep the representatives honest. --63.147.12.107 15:12, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Maybe it's because I'm European, not American. Our politicians tell 'porky pies' all the time. We rather expect them to. Stiil, made for a good humerous read on http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/3/28/152755/284 Go for it then. Expose him Palx 15:41, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

This is an encyclopedia. The point is not to "expose" people or keep them honest, it's to present information. What to do with the information is up to individual users of the encyclopedia. -- Jibal 17:22, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

no Jibal. This is not an encyclopaedia. It is a discussion page. The "point" is whatever I want it to be. Palx 09:00, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

A nice pic in that dKos thread is one looking about 30 degrees to the right, overlapping with Kaloogian and showing much more Turkish, as posted in http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2006/3/28/152755/284/758#c758 139.70.10.66 17:09, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scandal?

No offense or anything, but a few threads on Kos and DU about a republican caught telling lies does not a scandal make. At the moment I don't think it is appropriate to characterize this as a scandal, as it's somewhat POV. I'm not really sure exactly what to call it though, so i'll leave it --Frantik 18:07, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree, but it's not exactly a controversy either. Difficult to find an NPOV word... David Sneek 18:14, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I think controversy is a less emotionally charged word that is at least slightly better, though I think another word would be even more accurate. --Frantik 18:16, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

How about "bungle"? --Asbl 18:47, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

ha ha. how about stupidity ! ha ha Palx 08:56, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Media appearance

Note: An article with the headline "Candidate admits 'stupid' Web error" appeared in today's San Francisco Chronicle; it included a doctored version of the photo pointing out the errors, with the source being the link from this article. --Brianyoumans 20:03, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Annoying vandal alert

User User:66.81.15.226 (talk, contributions) appears to continually delete content apparently embarrassing to Howard Kaloogian. The IP address maps to ISP O1.com Communications, an ISP in downtown Sacramento. Then User:63.164.145.198 (talk, contributions) (perhaps the same as 66.81.15.226) performs similar vandalism. The latter IP maps to Kinkos, Inc. (a photocopy and computer rental store) in Ventura, California. Dananderson 23:04, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I've warned him and semi-protected the article for a while. FeloniousMonk 22:58, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

User:63.164.145.198 appeared and made the same deletions as User:66.81.15.226 right after I blocked 66.81.15.226 for vandalism, so it's not unlikely that they are one and the same. Also, all Kinkos IPs show Ventura, so the Kinkos used by 63.164.145.198 could very well be downtown Sacramento as well. FeloniousMonk 23:12, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. The Kinkos IP address is probably NAT-ted across some internal Kinkos network to several workstations at several locations. Dananderson 23:40, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

must be very embarrassing Palx 12:45, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Upper floor?

The photograph was replaced by another one taken from what appears to be an upper floor of some structure

It should be noted that the EXIF information that photo, unlike the rest of his photos, does not coincide with is Iraq trip -- it was taken in July of 2005. While it's possible that his camera's datetime were off, the rest of the photos appear to have an accurate datetime in the EXIF information.

Probably another falsification. 70.218.249.137 17:39, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Possibly. But the fact that it was taken from an upper floor of some building (or an aircraft) is certainly indisputable, unless Kaloogian became the Jolly Green Giant overnight. In fact, it is now accepted that this photo was taken from the location of Al Rashid Hotel.

Your information about the EXIF data I suppose is acceptable, provided you actually display the EXIF information from the other photos. But keep in mind that it isn't our business to turn up evidence that proves Kaloogian might not be telling the truth.

--CSTAR 17:54, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Corrected Inaccuracies

There are many inaccuracies that were posted on this page by those who dislike Kaloogian's political ideology. This includes many mischaracterizations and flat out inaccuracies.

I am correcting them henceforth.

This is NOT supposed to be a website used for liberal political activists to falsely smear those they oppose. Sorry guys, try that somewhere else.

Removed: *In February 2006, Kaloogian's website falsely claimed the California Pro-Life Council endorsed Kaloogian, and the council forced the campaign to remove the "endorsement".^[1]

As the website never contained any such listing.

Removed: *Another claim for endorsement by the conservative Center for Reclaiming America (active in the Terry Schiavo feeding tube petition drive) also proved false — the organization stated they don't endorse candidates. ^[2]

As the website never listed an endorsement by the ORGANIZATION as stated in this Wiki edit. Instead the endorsement properly listed the Executive Director of the Center for Reclaiming America organization, Dr. Gary Cass.

Kaloogian's political opponents (including some Wiki users) called each of Kaloogian's endorsements hoping to find a "gotcha" when they contacted the Center for Reclaiming America and the person on the phone indicated the organization is a 501c3 that makes no endorsements. However, the endorsement of Dr. Cass as E.D. of the organization was correctly cited on Kaloogian's website. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.81.15.226 (talk • contribs) .

There is also a false smear on Kaloogian over the following:

In one photo which appears on the campaign website home page, as well as in the photo gallery section of the web site, the location of where the photo was taken is misrepresented. The campaign website claims the photo was taken in Iraq, whereas the same photo appears on the Move America Forward blog with the caption that it was taken at MacDill Air Force Base in Florida.[27][28].

This is NOT true. The photograph is properly labeled on the MAIN/FRONT page of Kaloogian's website: http://www.KaloogianForCongress.com - "Howard on his way to Iraq during the Voices of Soldiers Tour"—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.81.15.226 (talk • contribs) .

Wrong. The photograph is not labeled as such on the Iraq tour page, so it is misleading. See the screen capture or the current version (as of today) Dananderson 16:13, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

The photograph in question features Kaloogian with Brigadier General John Custer. The photograph was taken on the first leg of the tour to Iraq at Centcom Headquarters located at MacDill AFB in Tampa, Florida. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.81.15.226 (talk • contribs) .

See anonymous user's talk page for a previous discussion on this topic, as to why the statement is true, and not a smear of Kaloogian. --Asbl 17:42, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

I see you're back after your last round of vandalism. The line of reasoning you present is the exact same one Kaloogian's office is touting. It's already presented in the article, as is the opposing viewpoint, which is well-supported. Your changes amount to a pov mass-deletion, something that's not going to fly since WP:NPOV requires all significant viewpoints be covered. FeloniousMonk 17:44, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes and I notice it's the 2 Kaloogian opponents again posting false information - will you try to lock/freeze the page after you re-edit with false info again? If you do this there will be a public discussion on the activities of liberal political activists to hijack Wikipedia to advance their political beliefs and corrupt the website's intent to be a place for extensive posting of information.

Re:public discussion on the activities of X If it's limited to discussion, sounds like a great idea! Where will this discussion take place?--CSTAR 19:08, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

CSTAR: You misunderstand. It will not be a discussion that takes place here. Rather it will be a discussion to the greater public about the fact that Wikipedia is increasingly used as a tool for propaganda by liberal Internet activists.

This particular entry has again been changed with INACCURATE information. I keep correcting it and they keep repasting false and misleading material.

This has happened on many other Wikipedia entries. Usually the victim is a conservative/Republican individual or organization.

If liberal propagandists want to turn this website into a tool to attack those they oppose then there is little other choice than to expose this fact so people know when they come here that it's little more than Daily Kos/Democratic Underground with the name "Encyclopedia" attached to it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.81.15.226 (talk • contribs) .

Re: Yes but my question was, somewhat tongue and cheek, where are you planning to carry out this discussion. Discussions are OK, but if this is a veiled threat of some other kind of action, then I think you should be clear about that. In particular, there is a clear WP policy on no legal threats. WP:NLT

Re: "Innacurate information"? It seems to me the discussion above and references therein seem to show the information that you tried to delete is accurate.--CSTAR 19:47, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

PS May I suggest that you sign your posts, please?--CSTAR 19:54, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Gosh you guys are dense. There is NO legal threat made. The point is that if you insist on posting false information to smear conservatives then you will be exposed to the public. That's not a legal threat.

And when the misinformation is repeatedly pointed out your response is to say that the information that has been repeatedly deleted (and then reposted) "is accurate."

If false="is accurate" in your minds then I can see how you could post that statement. However, false means "inaccurate" as the vast majority of the negative material in this entry is just that - "inaccurate."

I think that it is important for the public to know this. I think that when users see Wikipedia obtaining a high ranking on search queries in Google and Yahoo! they should be aware that "oh that's the left-wing propaganda site" so if left-wing smears of conservatives (based on inaccurate information) is what they want, then they've come to the right place.

On this main entry I have repeatedly posted corrected information that each time Felonious Monk, Asbl and DAnderson have deleted. These users enjoyed bantering the word "vandalism" around only when it came to removing their inaccurate information. Upon being corrected their response is to lock the page from further editing.

My response again then is to suggest that we expose the "game" that is going on here with liberal political activists. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.81.15.226 (talk • contribs) .

Re exposed to the public. Wikipedia is a public process, working by consensus in the case of disagreement. So in your statement that you will expose WP to the public, you must have something else in mind.--CSTAR 14:13, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Erroneous Characterization of Morrow Testimonial

In regards to the following... Morrow's image and quote were never used in any campaign mailer.

I left in the overall citation of Morrow's testimonial quote as this was indeed published on Kaloogian's website. I also left in the link for people to read Morrow's complaint that Kaloogian had included Morrow's comments.

• State Senator Bill Morrow, who is running against Kaloogian, is also challenging an implied endorsement by him of Kaloogian on the same mailer and webpage.^[3]¿The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.81.15.226 (talk ¿ contribs) .

Please sign your posts with four tildes (as follows: ~~~~), as previously requested. The endorsement is implied because of the photograph and quote. Morrow himself protested the implied endorsement and asked that it be removed. Morrow said:

“Howard Kaloogian's campaign Web site includes a picture and a quote from me from 2001 that implies that I have endorsed his candidacy for Congress,” Morrow, R-Carlsbad, said in a press release. “Howard knows that I have not endorsed his candidacy, and that I am running for the same congressional seat.”[3]

Dananderson 23:24, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Continued smearing of political opponents

[Note: moved this section from my talk page to here, as it just concerns Howard kaloogian. — Dananderson 20:26, 20 April 2006 (UTC)]

Dan:

You have repeatedly posted false and misleading information about individuals with whom you have a political disagreement.

These inaccuracies have been pointed out to you in the Howard Kaloogian Wikipedia entry and yet you continue to remove material that points out your conduct and then replace it with the material smearing the individual (in this case, Republican Howard Kaloogian).

I am formally asking you to stop politicizing Wikipedia to advance your liberal political activist cause and to immediately remove the false/misleading/inaccurate information on Howard Kaloogian at once.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.81.15.226 (talk - contribs) .

Anonymous person at 66.81.15.226: If you wish to contribute to the Wikipedia community, it would help to get an account and to follow the rules. A good start for you would probably be Wikipedia:Five pillars. Please stop deleting and whitewashing other people's work that you may consider embarrassing. Dananderson 22:26, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

I didn't know the rules were to post false information and then get those who agree with your ideology to agree it was true. I've pointed out to you now repeatedly the errors you have posted. You have repeatedly reposted them.

I've posted information you do not agree with that doesn't kick conservatives, you've removed/whitewashed/vandalized that material. (See I can use Wiki words to sound like a great offense has been committed to!)

If I were to go and post a series of false information about the Sierra Club (for whom you have served as webmaster) and get a bunch of conservative administrators to say "this is TRUTH do not TOUCH it" you would be saying the same thing as I am now.

I've asked you now several times (and am requesting this one last time) for you to refrain from posting false information and deleting information (whitewashing/vandalizing/removing) that you do not agree with including corrections to the Howard Kaloogian Wikipedia entry.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.81.15.226 (talk - contribs) .

Anonymous person: please learn how to use Wikipedia. You don't even sign your posts. Ad hominem attacks won't work either. At the very least please stop deleting information you disagree with in Kaloogian or any other article. You are welcome to post verifiable content, but you can't remove information that you consider embarrassing to your client. Thanks. Dananderson 19:09, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] False endorsement by the California Pro-Life Council

The statment:

Kaloogian placed an ad in Washington, D.C. that falsely claimed .....

is not clear. Where did he place the ad? The Washington Post? on local TV or Radio? on a telephone pole? Please clearify in the article. --Asbl 17:54, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Matt Rexroad's CalRaces blog has a copy of the ad, placed in a Washington, D.C. newspaper. The image is at the bottom, named "NationalNewspaperAd[1].jpg". Dananderson 21:46, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

It would be nice if we knew in which newspaper was the ad was placed. --Asbl 23:41, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References

1. ^ "The Kaloogian Pattern" by Matt Rexroad 2006-02-16
2. ^ "The Baghdad Bamboozler Strikes Yet Again!" 2006-03-31 by Justin Rood
3. ^ "McClintock and Morrow protest Kaloogian using photos, quotes"