Talk:List of Latin phrases (A–E)
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[edit] Semi-redundant sister article
As I said on account of the Latin sayings article: "Now that I think about it, this has many redundancies when compared with List of Latin phrases (A–z). The sayings need to be sorted from the phrases, and that may turn out to be a subjective process at times." What are we going to do with it? --Psotau 22:16, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] QUESTION!!!!!
i'm studyig it @ school... i don't understand. what does, "Anulos qui animum ostendunt omnes gestemus!!!!" mean???
[edit] perseverare diabolicum
- errare humanum est "to err is human" From Seneca the Younger. The full quote is "errare humanum est perseverare diabolicum": "to err is human; to persist is of the Devil".
Since 'diabolicum' is not capitalized, is it proper to translate that as "the Devil", or is a better translation a more general concept: "to persist is of evil"? Wpjonathan 15:13, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
Well, a more literal translation would be, "To wander/stray is a human thing; to persist is a devilish thing". Diabolicus is derived from the adjective form of the Greek diabolos (the source of the word "devil", though it originally just meant "slanderer"). So, we could more literally translate it as "to persist is devilish", but the only reason I didn't was because it doesn't really convey the meaning of the quotation as clearly. "Devilish" in modern English means more "mischievous" or "annoying" rather than "demonic" or "diabolic" or "of the Devil". It would make the quotation sound coy more than . As for capitalization, since that wasn't even invented at the time, whether it would have been capitalized or not at the time is entirely a manner of speculation, and not especially relevant, since it's just a matter of how English phrases that idiom best, though I can understand the aesthetic concerns. If anyone else with more experience in the quote could weigh in on this, maybe we could find a quote that is both less capitalized and remains close to the original meaning and intent? -Silence 15:33, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- errare: Do we really need to translate everything in such a stilted manner? Yes, "wander" is the first definition of errare, but any Latin dictionary worth its salt will also list "err."[1]
- diabolicus: I don't believe this word is used except by Christian authors[2], so it seems to me that it is fine to translate it as "diabolical" or "of the devil."
- This latter fact of course raises the question: where does this quote actually come from!? The usual form quoted is not Errare Humanum Est, Perseverare Diabolicum but ...Ignoscere Divinum. It is widely attributed to Seneca, so it probably does come from him, but at the momment I can't find the original reference (whereas I can find the following: Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare, which is apparently from Cicero's 12th Philippic. --Iustinus 19:05, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Alea Iacta est
The entry for alea jacta est currently reads:
- Said by Julius Caesar upon crossing the Rubicon in 49 BC, according to Suetonius. The original meaning was roughly equivalent to the English phrase "the game is afoot", but its modern meaning, like that of the phrase "crossing the Rubicon", denotes passing the point of no return on a momentous decision and entering into a risky endeavor where the outcome is left to chance.
On what basis do we make this claim? It seems to me that alea jacta est has it right when it says "It implies that he has taken a chance and cannot take back what he has done, much like the gambler who has wagered everything on a throw of the dice." --Iustinus 17:37, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Remerge proposal
See Talk:List of Latin phrases. Edward Grefenstette 15:40, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Future additions
I'm starting a list of phrases to add to this page to the future. It only consists of quite notable phrases; there are dozens, even hundreds, more that are more borderline-noteworthy, which I'll tackle afterwards on a case-by-case basis to see whether there's enough noteworthiness to merit listing (I've already done a few borderline phrases for the very beginning of the alphabet). I've finished A so far, so might as well put them up for reference: -Silence 17:04, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] A
- a cruce salus
- a Deo et Rege
- a fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi
- a latere
- a maximis ad minima
- a mensa et toro
- a quo
- a tergo
- a verbis ad verbera
- a vinculo matrimonii
- ab absurdo
- ab asino lanam
- absit invidia
- absolvo
- ab uno disce omnes
- abyssus abyssum invocat
- accessit
- Acheruntis pabulum
- actio personalis moritur cum persona
- ad (used in mathematical proofs: "ad (a):" means "Proof of (a):")
- ad arbitrium
- ad augusta per angusta
- ad clerum
- ad colligenda bona
- ad gloriam
- ad gustum
- ad limina apostolorum
- ad litteram
- ad locum
- ad patres
- ad perpetuam rei memoriam
- ad populum
- ad praesens ova cras pullis sunt meliora
- ad quem
- ad unguem
- ad unum omnes
- ad verbum
- ad vitam
- ad vitam aut culpam
- Adeste Fideles
- adversa
- adversaria
- adversus solem ne loquitur
- advocatione decimarum
- aeger
- aegrescit medendo
- aegrotat
- aequam servare mentem
- aequo animo
- aere perennius
- aeternum vale
- albae gallinae filius
- albo lapillo notare diem
- alere flammam
- alias dictus
- alieni generis
- alieni iuris
- aliquando bonus dormitat Homerus
- alter idem
- altissima quaeque flumina minimo sono labi
- amantes sunt amentes
- amantium irae amoris integratio est
- amicus humani generis
- amicus usque ad aras
- amor nummi
- amor proximi
- abguis in herba
- anima mundi
- animal bipes implume
- animis opibusque parati
- animus nocendi
- anno hegirae
- anno mundi
- ante Christum natum
- ante partum
- apage Satanas
- apologia pro vita sua
- aqua et igni interdictus
- arbiter bibendi
- Arcades ambo
- arcanum arcanorum
- argumentum ab auctoritate
- argumentum ab inconvenienti
- argumentum ad invidiam
- argumentum ad rem
- argumentum baculinum
- arma virumque cano
- arrectis auribus
- ars amandi
- Ars Amatoria
- ars artium
- ars est celare artem
- ars moriendi
- ars poetica
- arte perire sua
- artes perditae
- artes scientia veritas
- Artium Baccalaureus
- Artium Magister
- asinus asinum fricat
- auctor ignotus
- Aula Magna
- aura popularis
- aureo hamo piscari
- auspicium melioris aevi
- Austriae est imperare orbi universo (A.E.I.O.U.)
- aut bibat aut abeat
- aut disce aut discede
- aut viam inveniam aut faciam
- Ave Regina Caelorum
-
- I reccoment abuent studia in mores, which I've seen quite frequently. It was on the list(added by me :D), but seems to have been taken down in a restructuring)
[edit] B
- beati pacifici
- beatus (?)
- bella detesta matribus (c.f. horrida bella)
- bellum omnium contra omnes
- bene qui latuit bene vixit
- beneficium accipere libertatem est vendere
- bis repetita placent
- bis vivit qui bene vivit
- bonis avibus
- bonum vivum laetificat cor hominis
- brutum fulmen
[edit] C
- cacoethes carpendi
- cacoethes loquendi
- cadit quaestio
- caeca invidia est
- caeli enarrant gloriam Dei
- Campus Martius (?)
- capias ad respondendum
- capias pro fine
- caput mortuum
- caput mundi
- caritas (?)
- castigat ridendo mores
- casus foederis
- causa sine qua non
- cave quid dicis quando et cui
- caveant consules
- cedant arma togae
- certiorari
- certum est quia impossibile est
- cessante causa cessat et effectus
- Christus nobis factus sapientia
- clausula rebus sic stantibus
- codex (?)
- coelum non animum mutant qui trans mare currunt
- collegium (?)
- compos sui
- confiteor
- Congregatio de Propaganda Fide
- coniunctis viribus
- consensus audacium
- consensus facit legem
- consensus gentium
- consensus omnium
- consilio manuque
- consilium abeundi
- consule Planco
- contra bonos mores
- contra proferentem
- contraria contrariis curantur
- coram nobis
- coram non judice
- coram populo
- cornu copiae
- corpus juris
- cras amet qui nunquam amavit quisque amavit cras amet
- crescite et multiplicamini
- cum privilegio
- cum tacent clamant
- curae leves loquuntur ingentes stupent
- Curia Regis
- currente calamo
- custos morum
[edit] Suggestions
- I'm thinking it would be fair to compare absit invidia to the English expression "Knock on wood" (and the Yiddish "Keyn aynore", if anyone knows that ;) ).
- We really should fix the Errare humanum quote: see my questions on the subject above. I guess this onus is going to fall to me, but I was hoping somoene knew the answers offhand.
--Iustinus 16:54, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
-
- Actually, I was considering adding a reference to knocking on wood myself when I added the absit invidia entry, so feel free to add one if you feel it's relevant. As for errare humanum est, I'd love to resolve the confusion, but I'm afraid I just don't know. If the phrase's origin is in serious dispute, it may be wise to strip the "full quote" sentence from the page (and keep it on this Talk page) until it can be confirmed, and just leave the note that it's from Seneca the Young.
- I've been considering lately about the broader issue of establishing notability for these phrases, which is often a very difficult matter. For example, should Google hits be a significant judge of standards for such old phrases (which are thus very likely to be much more common in older, printed sources than in newer, electronic ones)? If so, what thresholds should we establish for inclusion in the article? 1,000 hits? Should we have a Talkpage list of "borderline" phrases somewhere? Should we provide printed sources for as many of the phrases as possible, similar to the method employed on List of English words containing Q not followed by U? Or should we be more casual with the referencing and just provide a list of the works we've used at the bottom without going to the trouble of linking each individual phrase to appropriate references for that phrase? And how should we effectively link to the relevant, but often severely deficient, WikiQuote and Wiktionary pages? So many difficult decisions... -Silence 19:41, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
"ex professo" is not in the list. AdeMiami 16:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Discipuli Nostrum Bardissimi Sunt
Um... there is (sort of) an explanation of this at Thomas M. Cooley Law School. Um... wtf? --Iustinus 21:52, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] a fortiori
The article reads:
- a fortiori - "from the stronger" - Loosely, "even more so" or "with even stronger reason". Often used to lead from a less certain proposition to a more evident corollary.
It seems to be the wrong explanation. I'd say, to the contrary, that "a fortiori" means "from more evident and general proposition to a less obvious one". Dart evader 12:27, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
- I'm afraid you're mistaken. Dictionary.com defines a fortiori as "for a still stronger reason; all the more", Merriam-Webster as "with greater reason or more convincing force—used in drawing a conclusion that is inferred to be even more certain than another", MSN Encarta as "for an even stronger reason", the World Dictionary of Foreign Expressions as "much more; with a stronger or greater reason; all the more certainly; more certain or conclusive", and I'm pretty sure Amo, Amas, Amat and More confirmed the definition too. What makes you think that a fortiori refers to the preceding, rather than following, proposition? Do you have a cite or source to support this? If so, it may be a variant, archaic, or mistaken definition, in which case (with the accompanying cite) we can add it to the article. Otherwise, I think the current definition is clear, concise, and accurate. -Silence 18:22, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
-
- Well, yes, on the second thought I must agree with you. I should've looked into the dictionaries myself before meddling in :-). BTW, I recently added a definition for 'dixi' into the article. Will you please check it? Dart evader 19:01, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
-
-
- Cool. Dixi looks perfectly fine to me; a more literal translation might be "I have said (it)", in the sense of having given a speech (Locutus sum (Locuta sum for a female) being the most literal direct translation of "I have spoken" or "I have talked" in general), but "I have spoken" is a completely appropriate and accurate rendering, as far as I can tell. Thanks for the addition! Also, a related phrase, dixit ("he has spoken", or less literally "he has finished speaking" or "thus he spoke"), might be worth mentioning. -Silence 19:09, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] External links, See also, etc.
We have a problem about the "External link" etc. links in the three subpages. Actually the external link list only exists in the full list page and the link doesn't work in the subpages. I think we should have everything in one place though, so I see two solutions:
- having the links in the subpages actually point to List of Latin phrases
- putting all the sections in a subpage of List of Latin phrases and using transclusion everywhere (my favourite choice).
Opinions? --Gennaro Prota 18:58, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Abbreviations
Half the reason to have this page is for a list of abbreviations.
It's silly for e.g. to redirect here unless, for example, there is a way to quickly look up the abbreviation, systematically. You'd get to the page and be lost. A great many of these are expressed almost solely in abbreviated form, so it would make sense to add a column for abbreviations.
Unfortunately, this would require pasting a column into each row, even if blank...perhaps someone else here has enough time to do that...--Kaz 23:24, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
- There should be a separate page listing all Latin abbreviations, to avoid bloating this one with cross-references. -Silence 23:53, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] argumentum a contrario
Where "an argument or proof by contrast or direct opposite" is mentioned under "a contrario", does this refer to reductio ad absurdum (also known as "proof by contradiction")? If so, either of these would be a better term to use, and it could be linked to the corresponding Wikipedia page if the reader wants a fuller definition and explanation. — Paul G 13:12, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Exit
Isn't it a bit silly to list "exit" as a latin phrase? I think it's just an English word at this point. Sure, it has a latin root and the spelling didn't change, but does that really make a difference? I am no Latin scholar, so I will not edit this myself, defering to those who may have thought about this harder. --Strait 16:29, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Asparagi
If anyone more experienced than me in formatting Wiki knows how to make it so that the phrase "celerius quam asparagi coc*u*n*t*ur" could appear not censored, or at least in a form that does not engender pernicious mistakes? --Tridentinus 23:41, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] i.e. vs. e.g.
The usage note on i.e. vs. e.g. should also mention viz.—msh210℠ 17:02, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
