Talk:Religion in Indonesia
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[edit] Created
Ah, finally somebody started this article, and welcome back Imoeng ;-) — Indon (reply) — 11:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Hinduism in Indonesia
I just found out that there are 2 articles about Hinduism in Indonesia: Hindu Revival in Indonesia and Agama Hindu Dharma. So which one should be linked as the main article ?? — Indon (reply) — 12:08, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
- Wow, hard to choose. But I think, the Agama Hindu Dharma article is just like, another form of religion (correct me if I'm wrong). While the other article, which is the Hindu Revival in Indonesia article, explain more about how Hinduism being practiced in Indonesia. So, I'd go with the Hindu Revival in Indonesia article. Cheers -- Imoeng 12:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Official & unofficial
I just wanted to make this change, but need other contributors' view. How about the Religions section is changed into Official Religions and then there's another Unofficial Religions/Beliefs, which is a fact in Indonesia but not recognized by the government? There we can write about Aluk Torajan, Bodha, Kaharingan, Abangan, Wektu Telu, etc., as they are fusion of between the official religions and sometime with local traditions. — Indon (reply) — 13:57, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Selamat balakan?
I remember being in a village in the highlands above Rantepao, Sulawesi, where the denomination was (I think) selamat balakan - Salvation Army, but I can't find any reference to them by that name on the net. Is my memory correct, or have I got the name wrong. This was c.15 years ago, so I might be misremembering. --Bwmodular 13:11, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
- I don't know either, but I know that Rantepao is in Tana Toraja, and it is the center of the Toraja culture. Toraja religion is called Aluk To Dolo, but most of the population are Christians. Hope that helps. — Indon (reply) — 13:15, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] History: Invasions
I'd question the use of the word invasion, in the first paragraph. That would imply that an armed force from another country had entered Indonesia forcefully. That may be true of the European countries cited, but I don't think the Chinese, Indians or Arabs have ever invaded the country, have they? I thought the influence was more through trade, etc. I may be wrong, but if I'm right, we need to try and find a better word than invasion. --Bwmodular 15:28, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
- Hehehe, I have the same question also. I think it is not right to write it as invasion, as invasion is a conquest by a military force. I will opt for acculturation process due to trading contacts. That's my 2 cents. — Indon (reply) — 15:43, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Stated recognised religions: Confucianism?
How about Confucianism? Commonly referred to in Indonesia as Kong Hu Cu (spelling approximated), I seem to recall something about it being reconised sometime during Gus Dur's reign or something. And then there's the debate on wether its actually a religion or a life philosophy. Of course the same can be argued of Buddhism. I don't have any references handy, though... --Lemi4 05:52, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
- Done. — Indon (reply) — 14:56, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
- According to many sources, Indonesia only acknowledge 5, (five), (lima), (limo) official religions. So, I've moved that section to the "other belief" heading. Please tell me if you don't agree. Cheers -- Imoeng 13:07, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
- It was 6 originally, then Suharto cut it to 5. Since Gus Dur was President it is again 6. See [2] (MichaelJLowe 13:35, 3 October 2006 (UTC))
- Imoeng, it is 6 religions since 1965 by the Presidential Decree. In practice during New Era, it was de facto 5 religions, then lifted again into 6 by Gus Dur. De jure is always 6. Soekarno decree was never revoked and Soeharto has never created a law that states 5 religions, but the ministry was. Please read again the source I used for the Confucianism section. I know you believe it 5, because it was what we have been taught since elementary school, but actually it is wrong. Cheers. — Indon (reply) — 13:50, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
- According to many sources, Indonesia only acknowledge 5, (five), (lima), (limo) official religions. So, I've moved that section to the "other belief" heading. Please tell me if you don't agree. Cheers -- Imoeng 13:07, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
OH! Sorry I didn't know that. So I guess I have to revert it back and change every statement about 5 official religions. Furthermore I would be awesome if we can write about this issue (things that have been taught in schools). Cheers, and sorry! D'oh! Imoeng 07:56, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Some comments
- This article defines religion in Indonesia along the official government defined boundaries. In reality, religion in Indonesia is more complex. More coverage is needed of the syncretic nature of Indonesian religion. Even in the "orthodox" regions of Indonesia like West Sumatra, animistic beliefs are still present and coexist with Islam to this day.
- More detail is needed about the arrival of Islam in Indonesia - the sufi mystics, and the coexistence of Islam with earlier animist, Hindu and Buddhist beliefs and rituals. Why did vast numbers convert to Islam?
There is an interesting overview of religion in SE asia at [3] which covers some of these issues, but I'm sure there are more specific and detailed Indonesia related references that can be found. (MichaelJLowe 10:17, 5 November 2006 (UTC))
- Hi Michael, this is all good stuff and should be put in the article. Let's Be bold. It looks like you are quite familiar with these topics yourself and good be quite easy for you. I think this article has come a long way very quickly (thanks Imoeng and others) but now the addition of this sort of info can make it a "deeper" analysis. --Merbabu 01:42, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
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- I tend to agree with michael about the complexity issue - even for something like practices in neighbouring villages anywhere between parangtritis to magelang (and gunung merbabu).... but if this is a general art about indonesia - the susbsidiary articles needed are ones to carry the intricacies and contradictions. SatuSuro 02:10, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
