Talk:Shrine of Remembrance

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Shrine of Remembrance article.
Please sign and date your posts using four tildes (~~~~). New discussion topics go at the bottom of the page; click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Frequently asked questions. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.	Talk page guidelines Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Don't bite the newcomers!

This article has been selected for Version 0.5 and the next release version of Wikipedia. This Arts article has been rated FA-Class on the assessment scale.

Shrine of Remembrance is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do.

Shrine of Remembrance appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on November 9, 2004.

	Shrine of Remembrance is part of WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Australia and Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page.
FA	This article has been rated as FA-Class on the quality scale.
Low	This article has been rated as low-importance on the importance scale.
Article Grading: The article has been rated for quality and/or importance but has no comments yet. If appropriate, please review the article and then leave comments here to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article and what work it will need.
	This article has been selected for the featured article queue of the Australia Portal.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Melbourne.
WikiProject Australia To-do: edit  Here are some tasks you can do to help with WikiProject Australia: The current Australian collaboration of the fortnight article is United States-Australia relations. Requests: Insurance in Australia, Lismore Base Hospital, Poppy Industries, Rossiter Bay, Sports Rorts affair, Yarmirr v Northern Territory Attention: Aboriginal Protection Act, Australian Payments Clearing Association, Coral Sea Islands, Qantas, Peter Foster, Reg Ansett Expand: Barossa Valley, Coorong, South Australia, List of Australian military memorials, Palm Island, Queensland Stubs: Australian Racing Museum Australian women's cricket team, Barry McKenzie, Calgardup Bay, Western Australia, Mortein, Prospect Creek, Russian Jack, Yabbying, Younghusband, South Australia Images: Darwin beer-can regatta, Darwin International Airport, Dingo Fence, Driza-Bone, Eucalyptus coolabah, Esky, Four'N Twenty Pie Quality watch: 33 FA-Class Australia articles - 22 GA-Class Australia articles.

	This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
FA	This article has been rated as FA-Class on the quality scale.
More information... P:WAR This article has been selected for the War Portal featured article queue.
Related task forces... Australian military history task force Military memorials and cemeteries task force

Contents 1 Pictures 2 another reference 3 photo of interior 4 Disambig link 5 Size

[edit] Pictures

Could we possibly get some pictures of the recent redevelopment? A picture of inside the building would also be great. Might need some juggling though with so many pictures already. T.P.K. 09:50, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Unauthorised photography is not allowed inside the Shrine, and to use the Shrine's own photos (see the Website) would presumably require someone's permission. Adam 10:07, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

---

"there are no memorials to individuals at the Shrine itself."

Doesn't Simpson qualify? And I understood the Cenotaph to be a memorial to all three WW2 service arms, not just the RAN. Geoff/Gsl 10:13, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• I think the Simpson statue is some distance from the Shrine itself. It should be mentioned, however.
• You may be right about the pillar. It has "RAN" inscribed on the north face (see photo), and nothing except the sword on the east face. It is possible that it has the Army and the RAAF on the other two faces, but I confess I didn't look. If you know this for a fact, change the caption and the text accordingly. Adam 10:20, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Simpson can't be more than 20 metres from the new east entrance to the Visitor Centre. I don't know what the boundaries of the "Shrine" are though. He's closer to the Shrine building than the Cenotaph is. I get the point of your sentence though.

As for the Cenotaph, the Shrine website says "The 12.5 metre pillar in the Forecourt supports statuary representing six men in the battle-dress of the Navy, Army and Air Services, carrying a bier on which lies a dead comrade." but I have no good recollection of what is inscribed on it, other than the face near the Eternal Flame says "1939-45". Geoff/Gsl 10:32, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Ah, then you are correct, and I will change the text. I suppose it would be odd for the RAN to have such a huge monument and the other services not. Adam 10:58, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Does the battle honour inscription really read "Rumani"? I know that's what the website says but it should probably be "Romani" as in "Battle of Romani". Also, excuse the criticism but I think some of the photos need to be retaken without the shadows. In particular the Eternal Flame and the south view. Also I would drop the photo of the west wall (the inscription is illegible and is quoted in the text). Perhaps a photo of "The Driver" or "Wipers" instead. Geoff/Gsl 07:45, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Romani is certainly the more common spelling, but it may not have been when the Shrine was built: as with Romania, Rumania and Roumania, fashions in spelling of placenames change over time. I'm sorry you don't like my photos - I thought the evening light was rather evocative. I may go back and take some more. I didn't take photos of the Driver and Wipers statues because they are copies of originals in London. Adam 01:42, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I have some writings from 1919 that use "Romani" so I am pretty sure it has never been anything else but until I check for myself, I can't say what is used on the Shrine. Re: the photos, I was just making a suggestion. You evidently didn't like my photo but that's OK, I didn't either. Geoff/Gsl 04:52, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I've checked for myself and "Rumani" it is. Geoff/Gsl 06:14, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

there must b an error, the title talks of 114,000 dead of victoria, and 60,000 dead from all of austrilia, how can the national total be less than the state total? or am i being stupid?

It's the 114,000 who served, not died. Adam 02:20, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The wording is odd though, a memorial implies honoring the dead. I would refer to the site as a monument if it is implied that some of those honored are still alive.

I wasn't aware of this semantic distinction between a monument and a memorial. It is officially a shrine. Adam 06:39, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] another reference

I just added the sculptor's name and another reference. There is a very interesting cartoon on page 316 of that book about the Shrine. However it needs to clear copyright first and since the book is published by . . . .well , think about it. Oh yes, I like the photos, think the shadows add drama. Carptrash 05:06, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] photo of interior

I recently replaced the existing photo of the interior of the Shrine with a higher res image. It got reverted, and I'd like to discuss the pros vs cons of each of the two photos. Speaking for my own photo, (and to explain why I think it is superior) it has the Australian flag (a good feature), contains pretty much all of the center box. It also has the silver pillar on the far right (I'm not sure if this is significant) and I also think the lack of people is better. Please share your comments --Fir0002 11:28, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

As the photographer of the original image, I am probably a little biased. I think both images have their merits, but I do feel mine is perhaps more suitable as an interior photo. One, it shows a greater angle of view. Two, it gives it a sense of scale of the interior as you can see two participating visitors in relation to it. Diliff | (Talk) (Contribs) 16:26, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

I prefer the first one. 58.163.142.32 08:01, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

As do I.--cj | talk 06:51, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

I prefer the first photo; the angle and the presence of visitors improves it. (I know I always try to take photos without people but I intellectually know that people in the photo often improve it because they do give scale and their presence can improve the composition.)--A Y Arktos 10:17, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disambig link

When a primary topic disambiguation is employed, then the primary article must link to the disambiguation page else there's no point in it existing. Please see Wikipedia:Disambiguation. Thanks, --cj | talk 06:51, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Size

"The Shrine of Remembrance, located in St Kilda Road, Melbourne, is one of the largest war memorials in Australia." Can anyone name a larger one? Adam 10:08, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

The Australian War Memorial in Canberra?--A Y Arktos\^talk 10:19, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Possibly, but of course the AWM is much more than a war memorial. It is a museum and an archival centre as well. We need a criterion of "large" to measure them by. Adam 10:33, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

The AWM doesn't call itself a military museum or an archive - just a memorial - we remember in different ways. I don't think size is always a useful comparison - bigger does not equal better or more meaningful but ...--A Y Arktos\^talk 10:44, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

In terms of physical size of the building - which is the only practical measurement criterion, Canberra is largest, followed by Melbourne and then Sydney. --Centauri 11:52, 8 August 2006 (UTC)