Talk:Summons of the Lord of Hosts

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Thanks for adding the sections into the Surih's, I had them only as titles, but this gives more room for future additional information. Good work. Nmentha 00:41, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tablets

The pages Lawh-i-Ra'ís, Súriy-i-Mulúk, Lawh-i-Fu'ád, Súriy-i-Ra'ís have been created, but the content of these pages is a copy of the short statement from this page (Summons of the Lord of Hosts, and the opening paragraphs of the various tablets. Wikipedia is not a place to host the content of pages, we have reference.bahai.org for that.

Following in the style of Tablets of Bahá'u'lláh, I will redirect those newly created pages to this article. -- Jeff3000 01:50, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Placing an opening paragraph is hardly to be considered as hosting content. Nmentha 02:43, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Jeff, actually, this was only the beginning. I was adding all these pages so that I can introduce summaries of the sections as well as detailed outlines. I was adding the quotes only for temporary after which I was planning to quote only sections of them. I would prefer if you would consult about such large actions on this page prior to doing them. I feel that you should be responcible for adding all these pages back. Perhaps you can help me in developing them. Nmentha 02:12, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Do not forget, that even though these Tablets were collected to be published under one title, they are completely seperate works and will deserve their own pages as we continue to develop the Baha'i pages on wiki. Nmentha 02:14, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

That would be fine in general, but Wikipedia is not a source for original work. We can not write what we feel about the tablets. Instead we have to write a published review of the tablet, for example from Adib Taherzadeh's "Revelation of Baha'u'llah". If there is enough stuff that we can take from those books to comment on the tablets in "Summons of the Lord of Hosts" then I'll help you make the new pages, but I don't think there is enough published commentary on these tablets. Remember we can't plagirize the content from "Revelation of Baha'u'llah" either, but summarize it's statements. -- Jeff3000 02:21, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Furthermore, leaving quotes as temporary content in place of better content, I don't believe is acceptable. -- Jeff3000 02:22, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Also look at the talk page of Baha'i World Centre buildings, where we want to consolidate many small pages in one big page. Until there is enough content to break an article apart, it's best to put content in the main page where's it more accessible. -- Jeff3000 02:25, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Allah'u'abha Jeff, I really think you are putting your own spin on things. I would never want to include my own opinons of the Tablets. Nor would I plan to introduce original work, other than of course the paraphrasing and summarizing of published work. But under this context, everything in Wikipedia is orignal because someone wrote it. It is not acceptable to copy other peoples work and put it on wiki. However, I do know that it is possible to summarize the contents of the Tablet and provide small samples from itw words. I agree with your work on the World Centre buildings. On the other hand, it is much simpler to click on a link to find information immediately than to scroll down a very big page and get lost in it. Each Tablet will eventually get its own page, its easier to start now than to leave all this work for later. Anyways, I will always appreciate your work and your service, but please refrain from deleting a page that has not even been given a chance to be developed. Once again, I hope we can work together on this since you seem to be on these pages quite often. Nmentha 02:41, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Nmentha, actually if Wikipedia policies are followed there is no original work, and everything is referenced. Please take a look at the addition that I did to Lawh-Fuad. I took a look at the Revelation of Baha'u'llah and added the content; everything that I wrote is from there, and none of it is my original work. Also I disagree that we should start with pages for all the tablets right now since they will become their own page. If and only if there is enough content for their own page should the page be created. Regardless you can always create a link that goes straight to the middle of the page, ie Lawh-i-Fu'ád. -- Jeff3000 03:13, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

I take it to mean that "we" as contributers are not supposed to be the 'primary source' of the information; I agree, no question on my part. Nmentha 06:28, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Good work on Lawh-Fuad Nmentha 04:49, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

I have a slight change to make to this page, I believe if we wanted to present the Tablets in order of the printed work, the Súriy-i-Mulúk goes last, I will do this and if we think it is better to change that back later for logicality we can. Nmentha 04:49, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

I have to say that I agree with the consolidation of the tablets on this page. It follows the examples on Tablets of Baha'u'llah, and since they are all printed as one book now, it makes sense to add them here. I doubt that any of the tablets will warrant an expansion to fill an entire page, so I assume just leave them on this page. I also deleted and redirected Suriy-i-Mulúk, which ironically just has an accent missing and nobody caught it. Cuñado - Talk 07:54, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree with consolidating the various tablets into one article on the current book. MARussellPESE 19:56, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lawh or Surih

Both Lawh and Surih seem to mean "Tablet" so we might have to explain this, I might add a section. Nmentha 06:31, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Actually Surih, or Sura, seems to mean "chapter" or specifically a chapter of the Quran. Tablets are stand-alone documents or letters. These two texts appear to be very rare to be entitled "Surih" and may indicate that Bahá'u'lláh placed great weight on these. This from Shoghi Effendi:

"The present volume [The Summons of the Lord of Hosts] brings together the first full, authorized English translation of these major writings. Among them is the complete Suriy-i-Haykal, the Surih of the Temple, one of Bahá'u'lláh's most challenging works. ...

...

Included in this collection, as well, is the first full translation of the Suriy-i-Mulúk or Surih of the Kings, which Shoghi Effendi described as 'the most momentous Tablet revealed by Bahá'u'lláh in which He, for the first time, directs His words collectively to the entire company of the monarchs of East and West'."

(The Universal House of Justice, The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, pp. i-iii) (Emphasis added.)

I don't think the article correctly translates these titles by calling them "Tablets". MARussellPESE 20:18, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

I think I found the difference between a Lawh and and Surih. There both Tablets, but Lawhs are written in Persian, and Surihs are written in Arabic, thus the translation of Tablet is those respective languages are used. Is it ok for everyone that I use Tablets for both Surih and Lawh. -- Jeff3000 21:59, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Jeff, my research shows the same information that you present. One being Arabic, the other Persian. I agree with your discovery. In addition, I do not believe we can rewrite the translations of the titles, because Surih and Lawh are both officially translated to mean "Tablet" in Baha'i literature. Nmentha 19:37, 16 March 2006 (UTC)